David Huggins & Jim Moseley (Nov 15th 2009)

[Jonah]

Regrets...

I appreciate Mr. Huggins willingness to appear on the show.

 

[conor]

Just listened to the whole thing, and, well, I'd hate to say it, but it does seem like he has some serious psychological problems....

 

[Kieran]

Huggins' stories are absurd yet, as you say, he is very consistent about certain details.

I'm curious about why people are compelled to tell this very particular type of unbelievable story. During the interview, Huggins himself at times seemed to acknowledge that this is all just silly, but he is also obviously at least partially sincere. If he were going to just invent a story and even take the trouble to illustrate it, presumably he would consciously create something more compelling than this juvenilia.

And why did he not just invent an alien tongue on the spot when the hosts questioned him? It's not like Gene and David could go have a look! Whether or not aliens have tongues is strictly on the honor system, and perhaps it is significant that Huggins did not lie when he was given the opportunity.

So is Huggins suffering from a partial psychosis that others experience as well? 1950's-style contactees seem to have similar, very specific delusions. Less sex, more world peace, same idea.

But more "credible" well-known accounts of modern "alien" encounters differ from Huggins' only in texture and remembered detail, and the relative sophistication of the teller. So I'm not sure that by rejecting Huggins' story we are really separating truth from falsehood so much as we are distinguishing between a well-told story and a poorly-told (or poorly-remembered and poorly-integrated) one.

I am sure if you went back through medieval tales of encounters with fairies, you would similarly find accounts that were of Huggins-quality as well as Strieber-quality, as well as perhaps a few that just seemed outright schizophrenic and so therefore irrelevant (?). But the Huggins-level stories would be recorded as part of the spectrum of the "fairy" phenomenon, would they not?

Well-told stories told by thoughtful, credible witnesses are likelier to be true, I guess, but when all the stories are so similar in rough detail, it feels absurd that we are picking through all these accounts so painstakingly. This analysis is bringing up differences between the experiencers, but is it necessarily telling us more about the experience itself?

Are we analyzing the signal or the quality of the receiver?

Well the difference is Huggins said himself' he taught her how to kiss romantically. He had plenty of time with the women to enable him to figure out if she had a tongue or not. It not like, he was vague to other details of the story which had a sexual element.Being consistent in a story is fine,, but his story is probably the same one' he has told over and over again. Questions where asked about that experience, yet he could not even answer one and why is that?

I agree with you there is a hint of fairy lore in his story, and that is the most interesting element in the story for me. Myself, probably Conor? know of Irish tales which told of a place called "Tir na nOg" ( land of youth) Huggins said the women who came from this world never got old. One tale, that i remember was of a love affair between a native man from Ireland and a women from Tir na nOg, Oisin was the name of the man and this women was Niamh. To cut a long story short, it was said that Niamh took Oisin to the 'Land of youth' and after one year of living in this world" he got homesick. When he returned, he was devastated to learn that three hundred years had past, yet he only spent one year in the land of the youth.It different to what Huggins said, but i thought some people might be interested in that Irish tale.

I am really torn on what to make of Huggins at the moment. His stories seem outlandish, but i am well aware of my own family's outlandish stories, so i going to have to keep an open mind here to what he has told us.

 

[Roro]

David Huggins displays an astounding lack of intellectual curiosity and absolutely no desire to investigate his own experiences. The sort of intimacy he describes would provide some transfer of biological material for analysis, you would think.

I agree that you would notice a persons odor but unless it's something clearly identifiable (smells like garlic or curry or fish or whatever) how do you describe it? If you don't have a 'smells like' to hang the odor on do you remember it later? If aliens have good hygienic practices or don't smell like something we are familiar with...
Just saying, the odor question doesn't seal it for me.

I shudder to think what childhood experiences would cause this depth of psychosis, if that's what it is.

 

[Rocketsauce]

I agree with you there is a hint of fairy lore in his story, and that is the most interesting element in the story for me. Myself, probably Conor? know of Irish tales which told of a place called "Tir na nOg" ( land of youth) Huggins said the women who came from this world never got old. One tale, that i remember was of a love affair between a native man from Ireland and a women from Tir na nOg, Oisin was the name of the man and this women was Niamh. To cut a long story short, it was said that Niamh took Oisin to the 'Land of youth' and after one year of living in this world" he got homesick. When he returned, he was devastated to learn that three hundred years had past, yet he only spent one year in the land of the youth.It different to what Huggins said, but i thought some people might be interested in that Irish tale.

I just found this interesting paper about the ties between fairylore and the UFO/alien enigma. I haven't had time to read the whole thing, only the first 3 pages but i will definitely read this when i have the time -

THE CELTIC ALIEN: FAIRY FAITH IN THE UFO ERA

 

[Gojira2006]

:frown: Hoaxers annoy me as much as debunkers (i.e., the ones who never bother to study the cases that they are skewering). Maybe Huggins had some experience with an ultraterrestrial (in John Keel's paradigm) or a supernatural being of the type that Brad Steiger describes, all in which case, I'll cut him some slack for being hoodwinked . . . I'll certainly cut him slack if he is mentally ill, or is delusional due to severe abuse (sexual, or otherwise) . . . But if this is all fiction disguised as a true experience to sell a blasted story or paintings - well, I hope a Mantis alien takes him to an extraterrestrial prison planet & makes him his boytoy . . .

 

[conor]

I agree with you there is a hint of fairy lore in his story, and that is the most interesting element in the story for me. Myself, probably Conor? know of Irish tales which told of a place called "Tir na nOg" ( land of youth) Huggins said the women who came from this world never got old.

I know exactly what you mean. The part of the story I found the most intriguing was the woman's name 'Cresent' somehow relating to the moon. I'm a sucker for folklore and myth, but the question is what part does it have to play in the modern world? Hard to know, but perhaps they are being reshaped in some ways to reflect the new human paradigm. After breaking down and deconstructing everything that came before in the last century, when everything became reducable and finite, perhaps we must turn once again to the infinite and the mysterious to confront the barriers to human knowledge that we currently face. This is the positive influence of mythology.

But I think that David Huggins may have experienced something odd once or twice, but has latched on to this new paradigm of the Intruder mythology to explain these happenings. And that 'something odd' may have even been a psychotic episode of some description ....

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

I am really torn on what to make of Huggins at the moment. His stories seem outlandish, but i am well aware of my own family's outlandish stories, so i going to have to keep an open mind here to what he has told us.

Yeah.... I think much of it seems fabricated or exaggerated. However, he said a few things that made me think about some of my own experiences, and those of others I have read. Now he could have read this stuff elsewhere, since so many people seem to have similar experiences, but it's making me think something has happened to him.

And as with other contactees, some of the stuff is just absurd. But we can't totally rule out that it didn't happen to them. There is a large thread of absurdity that runs through UFO/Occult experiences. It almost seems intentional on the part of the entities.

And I can remember times when I just couldn't think to do something... you look back and wonder why you didn't think about so-and-so... or like the time I went to take a picture with my digital camera of an object in the sky me and a friend were seeing... but I was then convinced I had no batteries in the camera, and could even see the empty compartment in the camera in my mind. But I knew it had batteries. But I had no free will in the situation.

And what's his motivation? I don't think he's schizophrenic, since none of them were named Fred or Buddy.

But the Andreasson link is troublesome.

 

[SR2]

It's hard to believe any of these contactee/abductee cases, without supporting evidence or 3rd person witnesses. But, can they all be making it up or are they all mentally disturbed? I would still like to have more of these kinds of guests on the Paracast.

As for Huggins, I agree with everyone else's comments about the red flags that came out of this interview. He sort of reminds me of Jim Sparks. Very extended interactions with aliens, but not very believable. I think David did a good job of asking probing questions, without pushing Huggins into a corner.

 

[icculus]

Well All I have to say about this show is that once again David & Gene come through and ask the tough questions that *nobody* is going to ask. When David started probing ( no pun intended ) with very specific questions about the sexual encounter I saw where this was going. The answers were very direct and specific and something that frankly ( again, no pun intended ) Huggins did not see coming and did not prepare for—and most importantly you would most certainly remember.

My guess is that he has some pretty serious mental health issues.

Oh, and did he say he kissed a Preying Mantis person or just the grey, wigged amazons? :redface:

Seriously, would love to hear Mr. Streiber or Bobby Lazar take some tough questions. As always, nice work.

 

[CputrGeek]

Have to say that this reminded me a lot of the Odyssey, by Homer. Not so much the parenting the children, but from the perspective that David Huggins was taken away from our reality to somewhere else, where ever that may be.

Homer referred to the gods and how they controlled the human population at the time. What if this is how the Greek Mythology took root and Homer was referring to these beings by adding them into a story.

Just my 2 cents...

 

[Chuckleberryfinn]

I feel embarrassed for anyone who actually believes this load of shit.

 

[Ezechiel]

I feel embarrassed for anyone who actually believes this load of shit.

If I was going to give the benefit of a doubt to this account, it would obviously require the input of a qualified psychiatrist/psychologist.

IMHO, the actors in this story need to be decoded in order to get to the real story. If the presented events are not decodable using modern psychiatry... it could potentially give credibility to the story.

 

[Chuckleberryfinn]

Not to be an ass kisser here, but I think that Biedny's questioning during this episode was keen and incisive. Make him go off script, that's clearly the ticket with these people. Well done.

 

[cottonzway]

I'm less then 25 minutes into it and wanted to bring up a point before I forget.

The name Rima Laibow brought up. I am aware of who she is because she is married to Gen. Major Albert Stubblebine, the man who was the main charcter of Jon Ronson's book "The Man Who Stare At Goats."

She is a pretty interesting lady who is an activist for non-GMO food. What struck me as interesting though with her name being brought up is her husband use wo be the head of Army Intelligence out of Fort Bragg that was deep into parapsychology.

It makes me wonder how long Mr. Huggins knew Mrs. Laibow from the time she did the write up from him. When a guy has some weird stories and the name of the wife of the head of army intelligence that was into parapsychology it begs to ask more questions about it.

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Just the other day I picked up a used copy of Passport to Magonia by Jacques Vallee. I had a copy way back when it came out, and haven't read it since I was a kid.

Vallee, as well as others, have pointed out that much of these stories are not new at all. Humans have been having these experiences for a long time.

Elves and fairies used to abduct people. Even angles and other beings from the heavens used to abduct people. Now we have little gray "aliens" abducting people.

There have also been many tales of beings (incubus and succubus) having sex with humans, both women and men. This has been going on for a long time. Why? Only they know.

The problem lies in trying to explain an unknown, often with an unknown.

We can't just say "well, why would aliens do this?" Yes, clearly it makes no sense at all if it's supposed to be some scientific experiment. And even though I thought it was a great question... was the alien female wet? But does it matter? We are talking about something that's just inside of our reality. They are seen to walk through walls and just vanish. Should we expect their physical systems to be like ours? Has anyone ever seen them eat or poop? Maybe they just don't. Are they even alive like we are?

So I'm really thinking we need to stop thinking these are aliens from some other planet, as well as the whole nuts-and-bolts saucer thing. Yes, they are real... sometimes. This makes getting "evidence" tricky. And they are clearly in control here. If they don't want their picture taken, it's not going to be taken. Period.

The more absurd these stories are, the more I'm prone to have an open mind about them. Billy Meier? No. Because that's too thought out. He has all the answers. But if someone says they had something they can't explain happen to them, even if its really weird, I have to first take them at face value.

Strange stuff happens to people all the time. We try and understand it, and some may be prone to try and explain it, thus labeling it with their own ideas about what it all means. But I think it's far stranger than we can imagine.

So I'm not saying I believed his story. But if I don't, it's not for the blanket reasons I keep reading here.

Just as an example... I had lunch with an old friend I have known since we were about 7. We are both going to be 52 at the end of the month. That's a long time to know someone! We once had a very strange encounter, along with 5 or 6 other boys, when we were in our early teens. I'm posted it here before, but in a nutshell, we saw a disc land and a number of small black hairy creatures with large green glowing eyes. My friend remembered the incident, as did a former girlfriend who had seen one a year later in the same area. Then she told me Jerry had seen a gnome with a long beard when he was younger. I had never heard this story so I asked him about it.

First he said that when he was about 20, his 5 year old nephew was taking a nap upstairs and came down screaming that there was a man with a beard in his room! Jerry went up stairs and didn't see anything, but then remembered when he was about 12, he saw a small gnome like creature on his back stairs with a long beard. Then he said a couple of years ago, him and his 12 year old son were in a park, and a boy was running past them, but he had no feet! Then he slowly vanished from the legs up until he was just a head. Then that was gone. They both saw this.

So what do you make of such a story? I might have thought he was crazy, except I know him well, and I remember what we both saw when we were younger.

If you talk to enough people, they will tell you strange tales. And they aren't crazy or making it up. What it is, well that's the big question. And it's probably has nothing to do with aliens, even if that's what they look like, or say they are.

So I think sometimes it's better to take someone's story at face value and make no judgements about it, unless it's so full of holes and contradictions that they can't tell it the same way twice. Just file it away. Then at some point you might hear of more people having the same experience.

Even with Streiber. I believe that's the experience he has been having. It makes no sense, and that fits right into the pattern. Maybe they are even telling him stuff. Should he believe them? I don't know. I don't see them, but I have had these entities tell me stuff. Asked me to write a book and start a movement. That would make me look like a crackpot cult leader! I said no thanks! But it still happened. Can I prove it? I don't need to. I know it happened, and have no need to convince others. However, it makes me look at these absurd stories in a different light. It's always someone that happens to other people, until it happens to you. It's happened all though out history too. People see a being that instructs them to start a new religion.

I can see why David doesn't tell all his tales in public.

As Mr. Vallee wrote:

"The creatures came in a variety of shapes and sizes. They were primarily humanoid in their body structure and were surprisingly well adapted to the earth's environment. They had the same visual and auditory range as humans. They breathed our air. They walked around experiencing the earth's gravity without visible discomfort. They understood our emotions and spoke our language. They were even acculturated to the local social environment. They occasionally abducted humans. Verbal interaction with them was uniformly absurd, but it had the absurdity of Zen koans, not the rambling gibberish of talking computers or insane patients."

The more he read of UFO encounters, the more it looked like medieval stories and folklore. So now we try to explain an unknown with an unknown.

Taken in that context, David Huggins' story is certainly nothing new. It may not have happened to him as he told it, but it has been happening to others.

 

[aNorthernSoul]

I get the fact that not being able to recall a smell is a thing of concern but at the same time, who says they have a smell at all? Now, that being said... soooo much of this really seems like hallucination that just kept getting bigger and bigger until it consumed his life. It would also explain why his wife stayed in the same home, though didn't stay officially married to him. Kind of, moving on but still taking care of him due to an illness. I think the thing that sealed it for me was when he mentioned the gray checking out his kid yet his kid didn't see him. Of course, it's pretty lame to throw such notions out there when all one has to go on is the impression I got listening to him and an interpretation of his accounts. I freely admit that. He seems like a nice guy either way. I'm going to need to check out his artwork....

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Now, that being said... soooo much of this really seems like hallucination....

I'm not convinced that any one actually hallucinates. So much stuff that is chalked up to a "hallucination" usually seems like something paranormal to me. I've never met a person who had hallucinations, but I have met many people who had very unusual things happen to them.

Like that little girl on Oprah that was diagnosed as Schizophrenic. She said that two animals, a rat named "Wednesday" and a cat named "400" were telling her to hit people, and do bad things, or they would bite and scratch her! Then she said she would go to an island named Calalini, a place between her world and our world. How does a 7 year old come up with this stuff?

If you read the old legends of the Djin, it really describes a lot of what people are experiencing today.

 

[Schuyler]

I get the fact that not being able to recall a smell is a thing of concern but at the same time, who says they have a smell at all? Now, that being said... soooo much of this really seems like hallucination that just kept getting bigger and bigger

I have to agree. I've been grappling with this. It just seems like it was an ongoing lucid dream to me. It's not like he claims he climbed a ladder into a spaceship. It's just this black hole that opened up and he went through it, or appeared on the other side of it.

I had kind of a similar dream this morning. One of my ex co-workers died of leukemia at age 67. I read her obituary last night. She had been one of my supervisors until she retired, and though we weren't 'close,' I always felt we liked and respected each other. My dream this morning was that I was with her. I don't know what we were doing, but my impression was we were just hanging out.

Well, I know her death kind of affected me a bit, so that's why I had the dream. It seemed so real. I woke up. End of story.

Huggins' stuff seems kind of that way with me. Read a book about aliens with big eyes, have a wet dream about them. Paint. That's just my impression is all. Not trying to claim anything about this.

 

[aNorthernSoul]

I'm not convinced that any one actually hallucinates. So much stuff that is chalked up to a "hallucination" usually seems like something paranormal to me. I've never met a person who had hallucinations, but I have met many people who had very unusual things happen to them.

Like that little girl on Oprah that was diagnosed as Schizophrenic. She said that two animals, a rat named "Wednesday" and a cat named "400" were telling her to hit people, and do bad things, or they would bite and scratch her! Then she said she would go to an island named Calalini, a place between her world and our world. How does a 7 year old come up with this stuff?

If you read the old legends of the Djin, it really describes a lot of what people are experiencing today.

And I find that totally fair of you. Nine times out of ten I don't believe in insanity or mental disorder... before medication that is. I actually struggled with why I was getting that vibe from him. Unfortunately, I often learned in the past that when I ignore my intuition, I'm led astray. You make a really good point though... perhaps it's a chicken or the egg scenario....