C2C: Bill Birnes and Mutilations

[spacebrother]

I am listening to the George Knapp C2C with Bill Birnes talking about cattle mutilations and the theory that they are caused by humans. This is something I (and others) have been pushing for about a decade now, and is of course anathema to many UFO researchers.

A researcher named Peter Jordan said this in issue #38 of the Fortean Times in the early 1980s and it was reported in my Excluded Middle magazine in 1998. Gabe Valdez told me this in 2003. Nancy Talbott told me (and others) this last year. I wrote this up on February 17th of last year.

In spite of my whining, it is good that this subject is getting on C2C now. It may mean that people may be wising up to an alternate explanation for something that has been going on for over 30 years, and something that can be researched and checked out by enterprising investigators.

 

[Gareth]

Even if they are caused by humans, its still a fascinating and dare I say it, paranormal, topic IMO.

Some of the stories from Chris Obrien on your show Greg are just crazy.

 

[Chuckleberryfinn]

Even if they are caused by humans, its still a fascinating and dare I say it, paranormal, topic IMO.

Some of the stories from Chris Obrien on your show Greg are just crazy.

If humans are causing all of the mutilations, and I believe that we are, then it is by definition not paranormal.

 

[Gareth]

If humans are causing all of the mutilations, and I believe that we are, then it is by definition not paranormal.

I said the topic is still paranormal. There are paranormal elements associated with it.

 

[Chuckleberryfinn]

I said the topic is still paranormal. There are paranormal elements associated with it.

Care to elaborate?

 

[Gareth]

Stories Ive heard from credible people.

The cattle that are alive and full one second and literally within the span of 30-60secs are discovered as a mutilated mess. Way too short a time frame for something like that to happen.

Stories that you read in "Skinwalker Ranch" and other places, where the dogs went into the forest a little way then never came out. Again, in a very small span of time these dogs went from walking to being discovered mutilated.

Stories from Chris Obrien. (Listen to some of Gregs interviews with him... Radio Misterioso

I dont want to get into the credibility of these accounts. Assuming they are legit, then there is definitely some weird shit going on. You might say that if I accept these types of things then I shouldnt agree with the "human interpretation".

Maybe thats true.

 

[SR2]

I also listened to this show. I can't believe how many shady people are involved in the UFO world. Thank god Knapp has some air time on C2C. We really need more serious journalists taking an interest in this field.

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Stories Ive heard from credible people.

The cattle that are alive and full one second and literally within the span of 30-60secs are discovered as a mutilated mess. Way too short a time frame for something like that to happen.

Stories that you read in "Skinwalker Ranch" and other places, where the dogs went into the forest a little way then never came out. Again, in a very small span of time these dogs went from walking to being discovered mutilated.

Stories from Chris Obrien. (Listen to some of Gregs interviews with him... Radio Misterioso

I dont want to get into the credibility of these accounts. Assuming they are legit, then there is definitely some weird shit going on. You might say that if I accept these types of things then I shouldnt agree with the "human interpretation".

Maybe thats true.

+1

Yeah, it's really easy to dismiss all these things as done by humans, or animals, but that discounts credible witnesses like ranchers and police officers that see these mutilations and say they never saw anything like that before. Or say they saw the animal alive a short time before, or even the people that saw them dropped to the ground! There is also a lack of tracks around some of the animals, and a few had their necks broken from the fall.

And why are people removing select parts (and blood) from animals anyway? You have to answer that before you can blame humans. Sounds like a lot of work and the chance of getting caught, for what? Plus a lot of specialized equipment. Cows are heavy... and strong. Just think about that a minute.

People have tried recreating the perfect round wounds with cauterized edges, and haven't been able to do that either. A knife doesn't do it, and neither does a laser. Why wouldn't this technology be used in the meat packing industry?

So before you can claim it's a human, explain how they do it. And why. I'm not claiming I know what it is, I wont even hazard a guess, but a lot of experienced professional people have been stumped for decades, and they should know if it was humans doing it.

It's the same with crop formations. Clearly some are hoaxes, but for all the people who take credit for them, let's see them make one of the REALLY big intricate ones, and in the time that they are reported being made. They say they do it, but haven't done one on camera yet. Except for crude circles with the board and rope thing, and that doesn't look the same either.

A few of these things have sections as long as a football field. You surely can't see what you are doing when the crops are a few feet higher than you are. And there's the ones in rapeseed crops, with a lot of yellow flowers on top that are untouched, but easily show signs of people walking in the fields.

Yeah, everything is a hoax.

 

[spacebrother]

OK, I should have said "many" or "most" mutilations may be caused by humans. I did not mean "all."

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

OK, I should have said "many" or "most" mutilations may be caused by humans. I did not mean "all."

I'm sorry Greg, I read your article, and I think a "covert disease tracking" operation is more far fetched than the paranormal explanation, because it doesn't explain why they would remove all the blood, etc., to test for disease. They need the entire rectum? Please explain what procedure needs that. And all the blood? Doctors can tell a lot from a couple of vials. Also if it's a covert operation, why would they leave tools behind? If you want to talk conspiracy, that sounds like one to divert attentions to the real cause of the problem. Let's just make it look like humans, even though you can't make those wounds with those tools.

And how does the radar chaff tie in? Reminds me of the "space grass" seen at some Big Foot siting areas. If it's in the cow's mouth, they probably tried to eat it.

One question is how they get on the ranch without being detected by the ranchers.

Also I think it's been shown that surgical instruments can't make those incisions. When you try to cut a perfect circle the skin deforms and makes it impossible.

Also you leave out the fact that other animals (cats, dogs, humans) have also been discovered in the same condition.

But we also can't jump to conclusions as to why it's being done. "Tissue harvesting" is far too simplistic.

 

[SgtRock]

But we also can't jump to conclusions as to why it's being done. "Tissue harvesting" is far too simplistic.

This has been a topic that has bothered me for some time. Of all the aspects to the UFO phenomena, this continues to elude a "thorough" explanation. So, since there seems to be interest, can someone list precisely the specific aspects of cattle mutilation and their possible scientific explanations? For example: exsanguination: the cow is found completely drained of all blood, even from the tissue, which is not likely to occur naturally. However, this probably is caused by blah. Precise laser incisions. The cow is found with incisions around the utter, the blah, and the blah. The incisions are precisely made, and are very unlikely to have been the result of predators. However, these can best be explained by blah. I've never seen any specific, believable scientific explanations. All we ever see is reports that state they are probably caused by space aliens, or they are caused by humans, or they are caused by other animals. And when people like Don Ecker were on the show and mentioned they researched this, they ran into a shadowy realm. Oh, and what is the connection with the supposed "human mutilations". Are those stories even true?<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>