Credible Evidence

[Randall]

While checking out a documentary about the possibilities of alien life, once again there's Neil Degrasse Tyson declaring that there's no credible evidence for alien visitation. But no wonder. Check out his source: The Weekly World News! The fact is that Tyson's declaration is purely an opinion, and if scientists like him are basing their opinions on sensational tabloid stories, no wonder they all think there's no credible evidence!

It amazes me that there are people out there who believe that the mocking theatrics of skeptics waving tabloids is sufficient reason to dismiss the firsthand accounts of thousands upon thousands of UFO reports, some from exceptionally qualified and credible people including Air Force pilots. Why should credible witnesses not be considered credible evidence? How many credible witnesses are reasonable to dismiss? A dozen? A hundred? A few hundred? Thousands?

At some point, even if I hadn't seen a UFO myself, I'd have to be outrageously conceited to honestly think that all the witnesses in the world are lying or misperceiving and all the investigators who have looked into their cases are nothing more than gullible fools. Certainly there are hoaxes, and certainly we shouldn't blindly believe any claims, especially those found in tabloids. But that's not all there is to the UFO story, and someone as smart as Tyson must know that.



Right Neil. I guess if someday you see one for yourself, you won't be credible anymore either ... right?

Dr. Allen Hynek - Former Director of Dearborn Observatory comments on astronomers and UFOs:

Link: http://www.uapreporting.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/jse_08_1_sturrock.pdf

 

[victimized]

UFO artificial changed nuclear radiated light signals.

What is artificial to the life on Planet Earth?

Sciences that change/convert naturally evolved nuclear fusion/matter as light and sound signals.

Called unidentified by our conscious awareness as a consideration of the data interaction.......being how reason and science was first conceived by the human mind as values and awareness, states that it is changed nuclear orbital fusion signals, caused by occultist practice to unnaturally convert into signals of fusion to allow natural fusion to be converted.

Nature, the natural atmospheric to ground state fusion interaction....or the SEALING OF THE STONE.

Ancient occultism/science....PHILOSOPHY OF THE STONE and its secret acts of converting the SEALS.

Ancient awareness....human life and nature attacked by manifestation of artificial imaged beings/presences due to atmospheric changes.

NATURE...the atmosphere belongs to 1 natural interaction.....cloud formation with a huge amount of images floating in the cloud formation.

NUCLEAR SCIENCES....uses the atmospheric conditions in the unnatural/artificial conver SION of SION...the ancient occult reasoning....holds an unnatural/artificial constant that burns/irradiates the atmosphere with fallout, holding an unnatural constant that records a huge amount of imagery.

Natural atmospheric light and sound wavelengths....gases of cooled nuclear light evolved as the atmosphere from the Earth stone, changes and forms a new recording condition by photonic fall out.....a huge amount of burning information transmitted to the attacked human mind and brain chemicals.

The human irradiated in the condition of nuclear conversion wavelengths witnesses the condition of being physically attacked/cell converted, mind altered whilst witnessing the transmitted information of artificial light/sound manifested imagery through photonic communications.....sees the actual manifestation of the artificial light sound manifestations in the acts of conversions of the nuclear signals.

Why it is artificial to natural life on Earth, why it belongs to a consideration of manifestation, spirit and disappearance.

Atmosphere, natural cooled/evolved light sound gases gaining unnatural changes by the nuclear conversion condition in the natural state. Earth atmosphere to natural Earth stone fusion.

The artificial condition, the nuclear power plants.

Nuclear light sound, natural fusion.

Changed nuclear light sound....artificial orbital nuclear signals gained, whilst the atmospheric natural nuclear gas light changes it cooled evolution producing artificial imagery. As light sound evolution changes so does the imagery in sound forming uglier and uglier transmitted imagery in the burning of the nuclear condition.

 

[ProphetofOccam]

While checking out a documentary about the possibilities of alien life, once again there's Neil Degrasse Tyson declaring that there's no credible evidence for alien visitation. But no wonder. Check out his source: The Weekly World News! The fact is that Tyson's declaration is purely an opinion, and if scientists like him are basing their opinions on sensational tabloid stories, no wonder they all think there's no credible evidence!

It's a satirical gesture played for subtle comedic impact.

They don't base their opinions on the Weekly World News. They base it on a century's worth of nothing. There isn't any evidence compelling enough for any rational, unbiased person to consider a case for alien visitation. But we've had that discussion. I'm willing to have it again.

It amazes me that there are people out there who believe that the mocking theatrics of skeptics waving tabloids is sufficient reason to dismiss the firsthand accounts of thousands upon thousands of UFO reports

It would be amazing if it were true to any significant degree. People don't dismiss firsthand accounts of thousands of UFO reports because Neil Degrasse Tyson tells them to, they dismiss them because, in matters of nature and science, eyewitness reports aren't evidence, they're an indication of where one might start looking for evidence. However, when eyewitness reports have been followed up by legitimate scientific investigation by people trained in the sciences, nothing compelling is ever found -- thus, no evidence.

There are thousands of eyewitness reports of a great many things, including fearies, unicorns, leprechauns, angels, God/gods, and lake dinosaurs. There is just as much compelling evidence to support the eyewitness reports of those phenomena as there is to support the eyewitness reports of ET oriented UFOs. People don't dismiss any of those things because Neil Degrasse Tyson tells them to, either.

At some point, even if I hadn't seen a UFO myself, I'd have to be outrageously conceited to honestly think that all the witnesses in the world are lying or misperceiving and all the investigators who have looked into their cases are nothing more than gullible fools

Not all the investigators. Some of them have been legitimately trained, educated scientists. They generally come up with nothing.

 

[Ron Away]

It's a satirical gesture played for subtle comedic impact.

They don't base their opinions on the Weekly World News. They base it on a century's worth of nothing. There isn't any evidence compelling enough for any rational, unbiased person to consider a case for alien visitation. But we've had that discussion. I'm willing to have it again.



It would be amazing if it were true to any significant degree. People don't dismiss firsthand accounts of thousands of UFO reports because Neil Degrasse Tyson tells them to, they dismiss them because, in matters of nature and science, eyewitness reports aren't evidence, they're an indication of where one might start looking for evidence. However, when eyewitness reports have been followed up by legitimate scientific investigation by people trained in the sciences, nothing compelling is ever found -- thus, no evidence.

There are thousands of eyewitness reports of a great many things, including fearies, unicorns, leprechauns, angels, God/gods, and lake dinosaurs. There is just as much compelling evidence to support the eyewitness reports of those phenomena as there is to support the eyewitness reports of ET oriented UFOs. People don't dismiss any of those things because Neil Degrasse Tyson tells them to, either.



Not all the investigators. Some of them have been legitimately trained, educated scientists. They generally come up with nothing.

You make some good points,however as a former police detective I can say for a fact that even if something happens there's not always evidence available.I have seen a UFO,was it our own advanced technology,a visitor from another galaxy or maybe from another dimension,I have no idea and can give you no proof but it did happen.

 

[ProphetofOccam]

Science isn't crime investigation, which is a thing that is difficult for the UFO community to understand. So, while i understand what you're saying, it's not exactly applicable to what i'm talking about when talking about certain UFO phenomena being taken seriously by the scientific community.

I would point out, though, that even in Police investigation, testimony is generally used as a place to start looking for actual evidence. In the criminal and civil legal system, testimony is used to corroborate evidence, not necessarily as evidence on its own. Even if 350 people in a subway station claim that they had all witnessed a specific person in the same station stab and kill another individual, police aren't going to arrest the accused person until they've followed the testimony up with the discovery of evidence -- i.e., a body, a weapon(s), forensic and biological evidence on any or all of those things, etc. If none of those things are found, then it's considered no actual evidence of a crime has been committed, regardless of what those 350 people say.

It's like that in this case. It doesn't matter how many thousands of people say anything, what matters what's found as a result of what they say.

All we have is evidence that sometimes weird, vague objects are in the sky.

 

[Spectre73]

It's a satirical gesture played for subtle comedic impact.

I disagree. That Neil Degrasse Tyson is looking at said tabloid is a blatant message to the viewer. Only crackpots and readers of this type of tabloid would believe such nonsense.

Does it influence the general public? you bet it does.

 

[ProphetofOccam]

Are you influenced by it, Spectre?

 

[Ron Away]

Science isn't crime investigation, which is a thing that is difficult for the UFO community to understand. So, while i understand what you're saying, it's not exactly applicable to what i'm talking about when talking about certain UFO phenomena being taken seriously by the scientific community.

I would point out, though, that even in Police investigation, testimony is generally used as a place to start looking for actual evidence. In the criminal and civil legal system, testimony is used to corroborate evidence, not necessarily as evidence on its own. Even if 350 people in a subway station claim that they had all witnessed a specific person in the same station stab and kill another individual, police aren't going to arrest the accused person until they've followed the testimony up with the discovery of evidence -- i.e., a body, a weapon(s), forensic and biological evidence on any or all of those things, etc. If none of those things are found, then it's considered no actual evidence of a crime has been committed, regardless of what those 350 people say.

It's like that in this case. It doesn't matter how many thousands of people say anything, what matters what's found as a result of what they say.

All we have is evidence that sometimes weird, vague objects are in the sky.

Don't want to be pedantic but one witness would be enough for someone to be arrested.They would not necessarily be prosecuted without further corroborating evidence.I can only speak for myself but what I saw was not vague, it was a Crystal clear sighting of a huge airborne object that was not like anything I've ever seen.This was 20 years ago and I've yet to have any kind of explanation of what I saw.I fail to see how a scientific process could prove or disprove what I saw,this doesn't make it any less real.

 

[ProphetofOccam]

To supplement what I'm saying with a little perspective, I've seen several weird things in the sky for which I have no explanation. Those experiences were neat, and they're interesting to talk about at relevant times.

However, I'm fully aware that just because I don't have an explanation for the things I've seen in those scenarios, that doesn't mean that anyone else standing in my position, at that time, might not have walked away with a much more explainable experience based on their subjective knowledge of natural sky phenomena. My subjective experience, as filtered partly through my personal knowledge, isn't evidence of anything other than the most base understanding of the scenario -- something was in the sky, it appeared to be moving, it appeared to be emitting light, etc.

"Lights that move in the sky that are unexplainable to the observer" isn't a debated phenomenon. "Spaceships in the sky" is.

One person might see a spaceship, where someone with a different understanding might see a specific plane making a specific manuver, a reflection phenomenon, or any number of thing. It's the mights and the coulds that prevent testimony from serving as actual evidence. The point of evidence is to whittle down the mights and coulds into something refined and, ultimately, most likely. Words alone just don't have the impact necessary to remove mights or coulds.

 

[Ron Away]

To supplement what I'm saying with a little perspective, I've seen several weird things in the sky for which I have no explanation. Those experiences were neat, and they're interesting to talk about at relevant times.

However, I'm fully aware that just because I don't have an explanation for the things I've seen in those scenarios, that doesn't mean that anyone else standing in my position, at that time, might not have walked away with a much more explainable experience based on their subjective knowledge of natural sky phenomena. My subjective experience, as filtered partly through my personal knowledge, isn't evidence of anything other than the most base understanding of the scenario -- something was in the sky, it appeared to be moving, it appeared to be emitting light, etc.

"Lights that move in the sky that are unexplainable to the observer" isn't a debated phenomenon. "Spaceships in the sky" is.

One person might see a spaceship, where someone with a different understanding might see a specific plane making a specific manuver, a reflection phenomenon, or any number of thing. It's the mights and the coulds that prevent testimony from serving as actual evidence. The point of evidence is to whittle down the mights and coulds into something refined and, ultimately, most likely. Words alone just don't have the impact necessary to remove mights or coulds.

Not disputing any of this.What I saw wasn't a light in the sky or a misidentified aircraft, it was seen from a plane at 30,000 feet and was around 50 metres away from us,unobstructed view in clear blue sky.I don't know if it was a spaceship or even an unknown species hovering in the sky I've no idea what it was,thus it was a ufo by definition.Not a plane,not a bird not Superman.I've spoken to pilots,civilian and military,I've shown them drawings of what I saw no one can even hint at what I saw.You and I will never agree on this and that's fine.It would be a boring world if we all had the same viewpoint.

 

[ProphetofOccam]

and was around 50 metres away from us,unobstructed view in clear blue sky

We likely won't agree, no. On this point, though, stuff falls into the arena I'm talking about. Witness testimony is shaky for a lot of reasons, but measurements, distances, and physical perspectives is a big x-factor. I'm not arguing with you, here, but the obvious question is, how did you measure 50 meter distance from a plane in a clear blue sky, 30,000 feet off the ground? What do you use for reference?

There have been many studies and experiments done that show that human beings have almost no ability to accurately estimate distances in the sky, or on the water, without numerous know references in the same line of view. It's why boats and planes need computers and people on the ground/shore to provide pilots/captains with that kind of information.

Again, this isn't an argument about what you saw, I have no idea what you saw, it's an explanation for why eye witness testimony is generally useless as a piece of evidence in science, especially in situations dealing with perception in the sky or on the open water.

 

[victimized]

Human awareness has begun to understand the secrets of occult practices, due to old photon recordings of past lives.

The atmosphere demonstrates that it holds a condition where image/voice is recorded and transmitted as a condition of the atmosphere. This condition allows information to be fed back to the human mind/psyche/conscious aware condition.

Science converted the natural fusion of Earth stone. It took the evolved/cooled products of millions of years of cooling and altered the condition of the fusion.

The ancient awareness of fusion relates to the review of the spiritual nature/life on Earth called SION, all conditions named and valued as SION.

Conver SION, transmit SION, dimen SION....as a UFO caused condition.

Our brain/minds belong to a natural atmospheric body, with only 1 holy reaction in it.....the formation of clouds as a natural cause and effect consideration due to radiation itself, its increases as energy is used on Earth by the stone and also the natural life, and how the Earth defends its own body due to this reaction....remaining fused.

The age old awareness states by spiritual/conscious awareness (occultist consideration), the studies of (occultism) and also historical evidence that Earth had been black body irradiated in a huge universal attack due to the first Sun exploding....caused by origin human males on an origin Earth.

UFO itself is an activated conversion wavelength condition forming the sound of the nuclear condition conversion interaction to enable scientists to convert the naturally evolved and fused products of nuclear dust....the ancients advice is HOLY DUST.

Humanity should be made aware that the atmosphere supports the condition for natural fusion, scientists changed this condition into an artificial Earth life and atmospheric interaction.

The dust just like the atmosphere was considered holy for the spiritual awareness of human consciousness after being attacked by and because of the changes to both the conditions due to ancient occult sciences advised itself that no change should be allowed to either condition.

The reason holiness is considered is due to this circumstance, the only reason why life exists as a Nature on Planet Earth.

UFO is an unnatural caused outcome of changing natural nuclear orbital bonds into artificial nuclear light sound signals to enable conversion to happen, which is why the human aware state, the mind gave the value/evaluation of the UFO "artificial", not natural due to self awareness.

The occultist propaganda wants us all to believe that the UFO and ET image manifestation belongs to natural fusion as older data of the product....yet only natural fusion belongs to natural fusion. The fusion on Earth does not alter is own evolution, only an occultist can cause the fake condition.

As nuclear light energy/sound evolved into the cooled product of stone, the scientific occultist have been studying/wanting origin energy, and it is why holes formed in Earth as sink holes. Their propaganda has tried to convince us all that these holes came about by natural circumstances. If this were real to the condition, then why isn't Earth just a huge hole?

Origin energy is Planet Earth itself, and the UFO condition we witness is the removal of its own natural fusion of evolved/cooled energy and stone body.

The ancient occult awareness named the Earth our Mother, and atmosphere our Mother, the Nature our Mother only because it wanted to teach by spiritual advice after being attacked as the witnesses or advice to change on Earth, that it was the only reason that life was living as a Nature supported by the natural evolution of natural fu SION.

The occult statement gave itself the awareness that they had abominated their own Mother by performing occult conversion of the body of the Mother.

When you understand and are notified of occult secrecy, the wisdom of MOTHER related to the value of M = 1000 and the other condition caused as the loss to the body of Mother Earth as the abomination of the Earth stone as a PHI lo sophy. This was the personal spiritual attack upon the mind and body of the males who created and caused the attack called occultism. Christ was an ancient spiritual aware consideration of personal life and nature losses due to being irradiated by the conditions of changing natural fusion.

 

[Spectre73]

Are you influenced by it, Spectre?

I certainly was! Before I was more educated on the subject that is