Heidi Lemmer
Paranormal Adept
First ebola outbreak was in 1979 in Zaire.
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How the U.S. Created and Funds ISIS
- Thread starter Charlie Prime
- Start date
stonehart
Paranormal Adept
True
What planet have you been living on? Manx's post below will clarify for you the essential reality that you seem to have missed:
Charlie Prime
Paranormal Adept
Your mindless recitation of U.S. State Department produced Mainstream Media propaganda regarding Libya demonstrates that you do not possess a realistic understanding of how the world works.
A couple of months ago I took this oil executive and his wife out to dinner and donated money to them. They spent five hours explaining the situation in Libya to me. It is the exact opposite of what your television tells you.
What they told me is indeed a Conspiracy Theory. If you actually care about peace and reducing suffering the world, you will listen to this man and woman in this report by your fellow Canadian James Corbett and get up to speed on the situation...
Interview 849 – James and JoAnne Moriarty Reveal the Truth About the Libyan War : The Corbett Report
If you don't, your purpose is to merely criticize me for your own entertainment, in which case I would appreciate you not reading my threads.
Randall
J. Randall Murphy
And you seem to have missed this:
"Blaming all the worlds conflicts on "the West" when "the West" itself ranks as some of the most peaceful places to be on Earth is absurd. If those in "the East" don't want war with each other, then they don't have to fight each other. No wait! "The West" is secretly forcing them all to fight each other using some sort of mind control right? That's what HAARP was for right? I forgot. If it weren't for that, they'd all be happy and just tell the arms dealers to go away. Right? Why don't they? Why don't all these poor helpless victims just lay down all their weapons and live normal lives? Oh let me guess, it's all "the West's" fault. No matter what ... do I have that straight now?"
So what if western nations have military bases in foreign nations? Does that mean that those over there who are doing the fighting amongst themselves don't have military based and outposts over there from which they're basing there own operations? No it doesn't. Is there one single country in the East that the "West" has taken over and put a Western Nation's flag on to claim it as their own? No. Have I seen pleas by the people over there for the West to get involved militarily to help stop their own people from fighting? Yes. Manx's post is meaningless and has no point other than a point of fact that leads the reader to draw their own biased conclusions.
Randall
J. Randall Murphy
OK. I'll check out the rest of the interview with the business people who had stood to secure billion dollar contracts in the oil sector, but ran into problems with the sanctions, and even though that obviously gives them a reason to be biased, maybe they'll make some points worth considering. I'll also recheck the sources that claim that Gadhafi's crimes weren't condemned only by "U.S. State Department produced Mainstream Media propaganda", hang on ... hmm ... here's something. According to the ICC ( International Criminal Court ) summarized in this Wikipedia article ( here ):
"Muammar Gaddafi was indicted on 27 June 2011 on two counts of crimes against humanity with regard to the situation in Libya. As the Leader of the Revolution (the de facto head of state) and Commander of the Armed Forces of Libya he allegedly planned, in conjunction with his inner circle of advisers, a policy of violent oppression of popular uprisings in the early weeks of the Libyan civil war. He allegedly formulated a plan in response to the 2011 Tunisian and Egyptian revolutions whereby Libyan state security forces under his authority were ordered to use all means necessarily to quell public protests against his government. From 15 February 2011 until at least 28 February 2011, forces from government-organized militias, the national police, the Libyan Armed Forces, the Revolutionary Guard Corps, and other security services, acting under Gaddafi's orders, allegedly murdered hundreds of civilians and committed "inhuman acts that severely deprived the civilian population of its fundamental rights" in the cities of Ajdabiya, Bayda, Benghazi, Derna, Misrata, Tobruk, and Tripoli."
The references for the above include PDFs from the ICC, and they appear to be genuine ( though you are free to prove them to be fakes if you can ). If you don't agree and call them, "U.S. State Department produced Mainstream Media propaganda." you might be interested in knowing that the ICC has very little to do with the U.S. State Department. In fact, according to the Wikipedia article, The ICC is headquartered in The Hague, and the United States has informed the UN Secretary General that they no longer intend to become state parties and, as such, have no legal obligations arising from their former representatives' signature of the Statute. Therefore the ICC appears to be about as separate from the "U.S. State Department produced Mainstream Media propaganda" as you can get.
Correction: I haven't criticized you. You'll notice here, that with respect to you, I said: "I appreciate your posts and I wouldn't dream of censoring your comments. My comment was an expression of my own frustration with the state of affairs 'out there'".
So I'm not taking issue with you personally, but with the information you provided, particularly the anti-West spin, and what appears to be a distortion of the facts. So perhaps before you make unsubstantiated wisecracks that are personal attacks on me, e.g. "Your mindless recitation", maybe you should consider providing valid counterpoint to the issues raised that include a few verifiable references. Then the conspiracy theory you posted wouldn't seem so full of holes.
As for telling me not to read your threads. So long as I'm not banned ( again ) from the forum, I'll read whatever the Hell I want here and comment on it just as freely. If you don't want me to read your politically charged threads and posts, then there are politically oriented forums elsewhere that are more suitable for spreading your POV. That's not to say I think you should be prevented from posting here. As I said before, I wouldn't dream of censoring posts simply for political reasons. But if you do continue here with them, expect that I or anyone else may or may not agree with you, and that they are also free to provide their own counterpoint and comments, even if they don't agree with yours ( or mine for that matter ).
Charlie Prime
Paranormal Adept
Read them if you wish then. I conclude you are disingenuous, so I won't be reading any more of yours. Goodbye.
https://www.theparacast.com/forum/members/ufology.2682/ignore
Randall
J. Randall Murphy
Sure it's your place to comment because you're a part of this place as much as anyone else. Apparently @Charlie Prime just wants to post his particular political POVs without having to address any serious counterpoint that questions his position. You'll notice that instead of responding to the references on Gadhafi's crimes, and how the ICC is entirely separate from what he calls, "U.S. State Department produced Mainstream Media propaganda." he simply chose to put me on ignore. So who then seems to be the one trying to check facts and verify claims, and who is the one simply trying to spread the conspiracy theory? Forgive me if I suggest that the answer is plainly obvious.
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Heidi Lemmer
Paranormal Adept
To think that the West is not affected by the problems in the Middle East, Africa, etc is absurd, and even more absurd to reduce it down to just oil. Germany and Britain are literally swarming with Turks, Egyptians, Saudi's for a better place to live. Here in America the whites are now the minority as Mexico, Honduras, El Salvador, Pakistan, India, China, Japan, Nepal, etc etc have come seeking a better life. But your documentaries only cover the "evil" we do. When there is unrest in a country everyone suffers or makes changes. You don't think my American dollars don't cover medical, food, shelter for those that come to my country? I don't always agree with my country's involvement overseas but I sure as hell don't agree that we created ISIS. These radical groups have been formulating their dissent for a very long time. We've put out fire after fire over there. We've also made huge deals in oil. While I would like to make my car run on air our current market dictates oil. But that hasn't stopped the flow of enormous amounts of money into the hands of those governments. Is it our job to write checks to each person living their or is it their governments and it's people's jobs to figuire it out? So these groups come from affiliations of affiliations, ok......that's really a stretch. Why did Obama choose not to rescue Iraq from ISIS, well....you left out the part about the President of Iraq not wanting us there and it would have constituted another invasion....and the part about elections that were about to vote his ass out changing who we dealt with which left uncertainty for our military's well being. Then you left out the part that our government is trying to get some of the other countries over there more involved to stabalize the whole region. Hell, were even working with Iran these days. The thing that's pissed me off from day one with these Arab countries is that not one damn person stands up over there to protest the violence. There all victims all the time. The moderates keep their mouths shut out of fear while their countries burn in mass slaughter. There's no way in hell the U.S is the creator of ISIS.
Randall
J. Randall Murphy
Some really valid points there. But at the same time it's not that @Charlie Prime's posts have no element of truth either. There's certainly more than one way to look at all the issues, and I think that's what your opening sentence was getting at. My only intent was to try to put some balance back into the equation, not to dismiss those instances when the West, including the United States government has made poor choices. For example, the way they handled Iraq. The money on that war would have been better spent domestically, and the way that the transition of government and security forces after the war happened resulted in an enormous loss of trust that seems to have sent ripples throughout the region. But I'm not a political expert, and this isn't the kind of discussion I wanted to get mired down in. So I'll make Charlie happy and go post my commentary about Chris Rutkowski's latest visit to The Paracast instead
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Charlie Prime
Paranormal Adept
You obviously did not watch the video in the first post in this thread which clearly explains how your government created and runs ISIS.
Facts are facts. The beheadings and murdering of innocent children by your government is your responsibility because you support it.
I honestly do not understand how you feel no shame.
Jeremiah Dugger
Skilled Investigator
You make it sound like we live in a representative democracy where every soul has 1 vote and every vote is counted and acted upon accordingly.
We don't. We in the USA live in a republic which has mostly been rented out to private industry.
You make it sound like we don't protest in this country when we are dissatisfied.
We do still have the freedom of speech and I assure you, every side of our political spectrum is using it, in their given way.
You make it sound like Heidi is running a training camp for jihadis in her backyard.
You are a fanatic.
Jeremiah Dugger
Skilled Investigator
Kissinger. Africa. Diamonds. Aids. Déjà vu.
Heidi Lemmer
Paranormal Adept
He's fanatic but well loved here. Probably not the best place for me to be anymore.
Aye Heidi, he is an eccentric's eccentric, but no-one has directly answered his questions, because none of you want to directly face the fact it has been your government that has been directly arming and funding them, whilst simultaneously have their 'talking heads' on tv acting outraged, its all manufactured by your government, is what his message is, and i think he is right, Uncle Sam IS the bogey-man
Stagger Lee
Paranormal Adept
As a tax paying American, I only wish I had a say in where exactly my money is being directed. The Iraqi invasion would not have gotten my vote. Although, a large percentage of Americans had vengeance on their minds, clouding the facts that once separated Iraq from Alqaida. Alas, that very invasion is what brought us Alqaida in Iraq. Is that considered Irony?
Jeremiah Dugger
Skilled Investigator
There's certainly a case for that. The book, Confessions of an Economic Hit Man, does relate in detail how the US Government has militarily backed the power plays of several energy firms in private (albeit international) industry. So I certainly agree with you there, Charlie.
But to say we all support it by not getting ourselves gunned down in the streets protesting it is too simplistic and an extreme assertion. ( Bush jr. was wrong when he said "You're either with us or your with the terrorists." Don't think like him.)
Also, per your (Charlie, not Manx) own video above, Saudi Arabia is arming/ funding ISIS, not the USA.
We protested our way out of Vietnam, and Iraq once already. We'll do it again if the 'Corporatocracy' takes us there again.
To what extent our governments do what we want is up for debate, but that nobody in this forum community is supporting ISIS shouldn't be up for debate, right? That's why I jumped in.
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marduk
quelling chaos since 2352BC
Except to say that the US is pretty stupid in it's interventionist foreign policy which chooses to use other actors to destabilize regions which then come back to bite everyone in the ass (like bin Laden), the rest is just goofy.
I know many members of the local Islamic community very well. Want to know what they're most afraid of? Extremism done in the name of Islam. Want to know why? Because it's culturally accepted by a small, but strong, minority of the global population.
The Western Islamic community has a huge problem and it knows it. Leaders are speaking out about it. And guess who's actually ISIS's enemy #1?
Islamic leaders that are 'apostates' and speak out against violence.
Those are the people we in the West should be supporting, and who truly have courage. Those guys have a target on their back every day. And that's who's ISIS's real enemy is.
Modern geopolitics is about economics, not idealism. If you think ISIS is really any different, think again. It's about the almighty buck as much for them as it is for us.
If it wasn't, the US would have invaded Saudi Arabia, not Iraq.
And the Arab spring sputtered and faltered for no wrongdoing by the Western powers.
I know many members of the local Islamic community very well. Want to know what they're most afraid of? Extremism done in the name of Islam. Want to know why? Because it's culturally accepted by a small, but strong, minority of the global population.
The Western Islamic community has a huge problem and it knows it. Leaders are speaking out about it. And guess who's actually ISIS's enemy #1?
Islamic leaders that are 'apostates' and speak out against violence.
Those are the people we in the West should be supporting, and who truly have courage. Those guys have a target on their back every day. And that's who's ISIS's real enemy is.
Modern geopolitics is about economics, not idealism. If you think ISIS is really any different, think again. It's about the almighty buck as much for them as it is for us.
If it wasn't, the US would have invaded Saudi Arabia, not Iraq.
And the Arab spring sputtered and faltered for no wrongdoing by the Western powers.
technomage
Paranormal Adept
Speak for yourself, I'm a firm supporter of ISIS!
I'm also a firm supporter of Ebola. 