Thoughts on conscience, entities, ufos plus AYAHUASCA

[Psychedelic_Alchemist]

I find this thread quite fascinating having participated in ten ayahuasca ceremonies during the past year, seven of which in the Peruvian Amazon, and three within a Santo Daime setting in Europe. All of my experiences were unique in their own way. There was plenty of purging (vomiting, diarrhea, profuse sweating, coughing, runny nose)which is a key element of the whole experience. The idea is to purge yourself of all the negative toxins and energy that you've been carrying around. However, it must be said that not everyone achieves what they were hoping for after drinking the brew. It's virtually impossible to know what to expect. And it's always a good idea to not have too many expectations beforehand. Focus on your intent. What are you hoping to find or cure. Set and setting are absolutely crucial. People often receive insights regarding personal issues that have been affecting them in their lives. People with illnesses or injuries have often received healing. It's a truly incredible experience to participate in a ceremony, but ayahuasca should not be taken just for fun, or because someone wants to get high. Treat it with the respect and seriousness that it deserves. And most of all, keep an open mind.

 

[Psychedelic_Alchemist]

I should also mention that ayahuasca has been used to cure a number of people from serious drug addictions. Dr Gabor Mate in Canada did a lot of good work helping drug addicts before the Canadian government shut him down.

Renowned Doctor Gabor Mate on Psychedelics and Unlocking the Unconscious, From Cancer to Addiction | Alternet

 

[Ufocurious]

I find this thread quite fascinating having participated in ten ayahuasca ceremonies during the past year, seven of which in the Peruvian Amazon, and three within a Santo Daime setting in Europe. All of my experiences were unique in their own way. There was plenty of purging (vomiting, diarrhea, profuse sweating, coughing, runny nose)which is a key element of the whole experience. The idea is to purge yourself of all the negative toxins and energy that you've been carrying around. However, it must be said that not everyone achieves what they were hoping for after drinking the brew. It's virtually impossible to know what to expect. And it's always a good idea to not have too many expectations beforehand. Focus on your intent. What are you hoping to find or cure. Set and setting are absolutely crucial. People often receive insights regarding personal issues that have been affecting them in their lives. People with illnesses or injuries have often received healing. It's a truly incredible experience to participate in a ceremony, but ayahuasca should not be taken just for fun, or because someone wants to get high. Treat it with the respect and seriousness that it deserves. And most of all, keep an open mind.

IMHO, intent is the key. My decision was not taken lightly. Let's say it is another baby step towards self knowledge. I have had an experience started by the spirituality back in 1996. It lasted a few days. During that time my throat chakra could produce an amazing perfume, better than any French one. It impregnated my house, my hair, my clothes, my bed linnen. During those days the ecstatic state permeated my life. The altered state was one of happiness and connection. Ayahuasca replicated that, although on a lower level. I took it on a Saturday, and the effect lasted until wednesday. I didn't expected that. It took me by surprise. If all I can achieve with Ayahuasca is to learn to bring that state to my life without taking it, I will be really thankful to the universe. It is hard to live in this planet when we realize that most people do not honor it. Gaia, mother nature, a rock lost in the universe, I don't care what the reality is. All I know is that I love my planet, and my intuition tells me that is far from being what it was supposed to be. We could be living is a much more pleasant society. But my years of idealism are long gone. I am sure I cannot change the status quo. However if I can change me, that is plenty. I read somewhere that the spreading of the Ayahuasca through the planet is Gaia's doing hoping that human beings reconnect with her. As far out as this idea is, it is a beautiful one.

 

[Ufocurious]

During the 1996 experience there were times that I could close my eyes and see swirling colors, mostly lilac and blue. It was soft and embracing.Very different from the geometric patterns DMT does.
No drugs were involved. I was breastfeeding my daughter at that time. My milk and sweat tasted sweet and delicious. We joked it tastes like manna.
What was that? I never questioned it, I just accepted as a gift and as a peek in what life could be.
I didn't think of that past experience when I decided to drink Ayahuasca. But the feeling of connectedness and awareness Ayahuasca brought made me remember it and connect the dots.
What if Ayahuasca can teach me to bring that state in my life?
Ayahuasca had no side effects on me. I woke up on the Sunday after the ritual felling happy, full of energy and love. I can't see any harm on it. Neither does most of the doctors, biochemists, psychologists and other scientists that are looking into it. All the bad situations we heard from Ayahuasca happened to people with mental illness and in all cases I found on the internet other drugs were involved. Studies done with rats won't scare me. A little bit of courage is needed for change to happen, and I am all for it.

 

[Tyger]

During the 1996 experience there were times that I could close my eyes and see swirling colors, mostly lilac and blue. It was soft and embracing. Very different from the geometric patterns DMT does. No drugs were involved. I was breastfeeding my daughter at that time. My milk and sweat tasted sweet and delicious. We joked it tastes like manna.

I know the experience of colors. Lilac - lavender - just the thought and the memory rises up.

What was that? I never questioned it, I just accepted as a gift and as a peek in what life could be.

Same here. It is what started me on the path of knowledge - the Occult Path.

I didn't think of that past experience when I decided to drink Ayahuasca. But the feeling of connectedness and awareness Ayahuasca brought made me remember it and connect the dots.

It has served you well, then.

What if Ayahuasca can teach me to bring that state in my life?

A blessing.

Ayahuasca had no side effects on me. I woke up on the Sunday after the ritual felling happy, full of energy and love. I can't see any harm on it. Neither does most of the doctors, biochemists, psychologists and other scientists that are looking into it. All the bad situations we heard from Ayahuasca happened to people with mental illness and in all cases I found on the internet other drugs were involved. Studies done with rats won't scare me. A little bit of courage is needed for change to happen, and I am all for it.

Sounds balanced to me.

 

[Tyger]

IMHO, intent is the key. My decision was not taken lightly. Let's say it is another baby step towards self knowledge.

Yes.

I have had an experience started by the spirituality back in 1996. It lasted a few days. During that time my throat chakra could produce an amazing perfume, better than any French one. It impregnated my house, my hair, my clothes, my bed linnen. During those days the ecstatic state permeated my life. The altered state was one of happiness and connection.

I know this state. I know the perfume. I did not 'know' or link it to my throat chakra - I just knew I was suffused with the most delicious scent. Everything was saturated with it. Yes, an ecstatic state.

Ayahuasca replicated that, although on a lower level. I took it on a Saturday, and the effect lasted until Wednesday. I didn't expect that. It took me by surprise.

Interesting.

If all I can achieve with Ayahuasca is to learn to bring that state to my life without taking it, I will be really thankful to the universe.

Just so.

It is hard to live in this planet when we realize that most people do not honor it. Gaia, mother nature, a rock lost in the universe, I don't care what the reality is. All I know is that I love my planet, and my intuition tells me that it is far from being what it was supposed to be. We could be living in a much more pleasant society. But my years of idealism are long gone. I am sure I cannot change the status quo. However if I can change me, that is plenty. I read somewhere that the spreading of the Ayahuasca through the planet is Gaia's doing hoping that human beings reconnect with her. As far out as this idea is, it is a beautiful one.

In fact the stimulus - as far as I could determine - was nature - and my being utterly 'within' it. Specifically, in my case, it was the trees. It was as if the aroma was coming from the essence, the very heart, of the tree wood. It was an amazing experience that spread over days. Quite remarkable. Nature - the Earth - Gaia. In me - outside of me. Pervasive. Exalting.

One Occult text (written in the late 1800's) - that I have come across - talked about the fact/belief/suggestion that our Earth is in fact undergoing an Initiation. At the time of the writing, the indication was that the Initiation was at it's 'beginning' - whatever that means in terms of 'time' - and the image given was of a 'rod' touching the Earth that consists of energy flooding the planet. (Humanity is seen as the 'brain' or 'neural net' of the Being of the Earth). This Initiation will - it was stated in the text - throw humanity into a massive increase in numbers and re-organization. Interesting image as we consider what has taken place in the last 100+ years. If this Initiation is successful, the Earth will join the ranks of the 'Sacred Planets' - according to the view of this text.

Just as a human being can 'fail' or 'fall back' from an initiation - just as the energies/forces of a human being's initiation process can stimulate or overwhelm in ways unfortunate and unexpected (especially the mind) - I would guess that 'Gaia' cannot be certain of the reactions of it's constituent parts to the influx of the Initiation's high forces. The fact that the Initiation has actually begun says something regarding the emerging capacity of Earth - just as it would of a human being. I do know that most esotericists are very concerned about the loss of Nature around the planet. Quite beyond the natural world being a source of medicines and such, the natural world is key to the human being's initiating experience into the spiritual world.

 

[Randall]

How do you know that mind-altering drugs don't ensure a clear and stable mind?

Seriously?

Have you ever taken any? If not, then I really can't see where you're coming from.

Don't you believe there have been independent objective studies on drug impairment?

 

[Randall]

A little bit of courage is needed for change to happen, and I am all for it.

There are those who would say that it takes more courage to face hard reality than escape into a drug induced state of bliss, and change can happen without drugs in the equation, so I'm curious as to why you think you need drugs to initiate change. What do you hope to gain? What do you hope to lose?

 

[Tyger]

Seriously?

Per usual, you don't actually say anything. You don't actually present any thoughts.

Don't you believe there have been independent objective studies on drug impairment?

What does belief have to do with it? Cite your sources. What drugs were studied?

 

[Tyger]

There are those who would say that it takes more courage to face hard reality than escape into a drug induced state of bliss,

"Face hard reality" - what does that mean? What is 'hard reality' ? Have you ever been in love? Love is a 'hard reality' by your definition, I think. It takes courage to face all of life - and sometimes we give ourselves a little test - like bungy-jumping or white-water rafting or standing on Mt Everest. It's all the same.

escape into a drug induced state of bliss

You need to go back into what has already been posted. A 'drug induced state of bliss' is not quite what is being described. It's subtle - but make an effort to understand the subtleties.

and change can happen without drugs in the equation,

Yes, it can. Have you been able to change without intervention of some kind?

One can argue that physical healing takes place in time - but applying herbal remedies can facilitate healing. A headache will go away in time, but taking an aspirin will facilitate it. One will achieve bliss in time, but special study of one's psyche or exercises and meditation/prayer will facilitate the acquisition.

so I'm curious as to why you think you need drugs to initiate change.

UFocurious will answer for herself if she feels your query is appropriate and not invasive - but I think the reality is that we all make our own choices for our own reasons. It's very clear that this would not be your choice. That is okay. No one is trying to undo your choice or resolve. You are being respected. I think the same respect is due those who make choices different to our own.

What do you hope to gain?

Read UFocurious's posts - the answer to this question is contained in her very generous text.

What do you hope to lose?

Again, read UFocurious's posts - the answer to this question is contained in her text. I would suggest that you not force her to repeat herself for your benefit. IMO.

 

[boomerang]

I've made no claim that "clean living ensures a clear and stable mind".

You personally did not. But institutions of individual and collective authority in this culture tacitly do.

"Life is hard and then you die." What happens throughout this process in our never ending search for meaning, unavoidably involves a series of benefit vs risk analyses.

 

[Randall]

You personally did not. But institutions of individual and collective authority in this culture tacitly do.

Fair enough. But let's reverse the concept. Suppose I were to say that the drug subculture and collective authorities in that culture tacitly imply that doing drugs will not have a negative effect on a clear and stable mind, what then? Which sounds more reasonable? I'd submit that clean living most certainly can help attain a clear and stable mind. At the same time I'm virtually certain that doing drugs isn't going to help a clear and stable mind get any more clear and stable than it was before being affected by drugs. And let's not even get started on all the "spiritual" mumbo-jumbo that can accompany these drug induced trips. I knew one guy who said he saw God while high on a hallucinogen, but what he was really doing was standing in his bedroom listening to Led Zeppelin while staring at a black-light poster from the 1970s.

"Life is hard and then you die." What happens throughout this process in our never ending search for meaning, unavoidably involves a series of benefit vs risk analyses.

Sure, so let's do that then. When it comes to "conscience, entities, ufos plus AYAHUASCA", ( the title of this thread ), the analysis goes like this: When it comes to UFOs, few people ( if any ), are going to take anyone seriously who was high on Ayahuasca or any other drug. It's bad enough that we've got UFO religions. The last thing we need is a UFO drug cult. The risk analysis for the field of ufology for endorsing such a thing is off the charts.

So please understand. The most I can do is look at this from a dispassionate perspective and make objective notes about it. If it produces some sort of verifiable material results, like being able to summon physical alien craft that the rest of us clear minded straight people can all examine, then great! Otherwise what's next? Drug induced psychic contact with AYAHU from the planet HUASCA? No way man ... I am so seriously not going down that path.

 

[Ufocurious]

Tyger
I am so happy. You are the first person I "met" in all these years that has had a similar experience.
I am glad you shared it.
Last night I came from work and just felt I should write that. Total intuition.

I had the perfume around me and other people in other two occasions. We were talking about the possibilities of the spiritual realm being real, and the smell surrounded us. One years before the experience, and one right after.

The throat chakra producing the perfume happened again in the following year, when I met the same person, a Brazilian medium, Divaldo Franco. According to him the smell is a gift from Joanna de Angelis, his mentor. However, the second time was not as powerful and lasting. But it came from the throat.

At that time I didn't know about chakras, and much less about one in the throat. However, I felt a spinning on the interior of my neck, and everytime I expelled air from my mouth, instead of bad breath, the amazing perfume came out.

Producing the smell probably lasted few hours. But it was there on me, in me, all around my house for few days.

 

[Ufocurious]

Ufology

You know I like you very much.
I am not going to argue about Ayahuasca with you. You stated your view, I accepted it. But I will do what I feel I should do.
One thing I like about the Ayahuasca experience is that I hear my inner self without the interference of other people's thoughts.

Furthermore, I hope you understood that the Ayahuasca experience is neither blissful or easy. It is an ordeal sometimes. The whole thing happens in a conscious and aware state. The point is pass over the DMT induced imagery and connect with your higher self.

The bliss came after. Feeling connected and aware is priceless. (OMG, our brains are so s-----d that the master card add came to me.LOL

The first lesson I learned from the Padrinho was that I should not believe the entities, if I met any. Most likely, they are fantasies from my brain. Furthermore, I have gone through some experiences and studied about other realities to understand that our brain will try to make sense of anything unknown. If a beautiful man shows up, I will not think he is Jesus or Ashtar Don't worry.

I see the brew as a shortcut. Yes, our Christian upbringing is not to fond of shortcuts. But this one is here, and I will take it. If I am wrong, I will tell you.

 

[Ufocurious]

Ufology
BTW, I understand you worry about the mix ufologist+ ayahuasca.
However, I am not an ufologist. The UFO in the thread name came to be because some people see extraterrestrials or ultradimensional beings while on Ayahuasca. The UFO thoughts don't even come close to mind when I go into the Ayahuasca experience. And all I saw were the cute funny elves

 

[Wade]

So, in part inspired by a suggestion that Mike made in the abduction narratives w/alien technology on a whim I googled dna + machine eleves and came up with an older but intriguing thread on dmt-nexus forum where a fellow proposed that those machine eleves were building blocks of dna and that we are witnessing ourselves on a molecular level. Some of this discussion got a little out there, (imho) but it put an interesting bee in my bonnet as i never heard or even considered this thought. Also dropped the names of a couple of books I may want to consider.

What makes this spooky for me is i can relate to those ladders and spiral staircase dreams as this is a common theme in my dreams. Also many times whenever I go to bed at night and close my eyes and start to empty my head the first thing that I "see" in my head.. can't think of a better way to put it...is DNA type structures.

Working Theory RE: Machine Elves, Quetzalcoatl, DNA, and 2012 - Introduction Essay - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

 

[Polterwurst]

Ufology
BTW, I understand you worry about the mix ufologist+ ayahuasca.
However, I am not an ufologist. The UFO in the thread name came to be because some people see extraterrestrials or ultradimensional beings while on Ayahuasca. The UFO thoughts don't even come close to mind when I go into the Ayahuasca experience. And all I saw were the cute funny elves

I remember watching an interview with one of Strassmann's volunteers. She said something to the effect that she had actually expected nature spirits, forests and beautiful landscapes, because those were images her mentality had a tendency for. Instead she found herself on a kind of space station in what seemed to be earth orbit, being welcomed by some alien insectoid. That must have been quite a disappointment.

I guess this is reminiscent of dreams which also rarely go as we would hope (if you're not a trained lucid dreamer) and place us in astonishingly detailed, but often unkown environments. But the DMT experience is probably much more intense.

So, do you think the images you got were entirely / partly / not at all "conjured up" by your subconscious or imagination? Was anything "going as expected"? For example, did the "machine elves" look anything like you imagined them before? Do you think they could have been actual, independent creatures?

I guess they were kind of like little stick-like humanoids (if I remember your post correctly). Funnily enough, the two photographers in Austria I've posted about (who photographed lots of "ligh phenomena" flying around) say that they have seen "entities" of that description in their garden and house. I don't know if they had taken something, and at the time I was really asking myself that, but actually they seem to be quite serious about it (although some of their stories are really out there).

 

[Randall]

Ufology ... I understand you worry about the mix ufologist+ ayahuasca.

I'm glad you do.

However, I am not an ufologist.

Thankfully. The field doesn't need doped-up ufologists advocating that people get into doing drugs so that they can see ultraterrestrials.

The UFO in the thread name came to be because some people see extraterrestrials or ultradimensional beings while on Ayahuasca.

Voila! And there it is. The next stop on the slippery slope; people who see aliens while they're high, and from there, they're only a hair's width away from becoming a drug tripper/contactee, or shall I say, "Shamanic UFO Emissary". Wrap it up however you want and it still spells UFO drug cult. You may have seen it as a completely innocent connection, but again, I'm glad that you now see my concern about how this type of thing can affect ufology, and why I need to be entirely objective about it.

Ufology ... You know I like you very much.

Yes, we seemed to be off to a promising start, and I certainly won't write that off. Even if I can't give you my personal blessing to explore drug induced states of consciousness, it doesn't mean that I want to see you fail. I hope you find whatever it is you are looking for and emerge from it enriched enough that you don't need it anymore. From a UFO studies point of view I'd also be interested in hearing more about the contactee type experiences that you were talking about. They could make for an interesting chapter in the area of ufology sub-culture.

NOTE: Have you considered limiting the number of sessions to a specified amount? For example limit your number of trips to 10, try to keep a journal of them, and then quit for at least 6-8 months to reflect and assess the experiences? Do you have a straight friend who you trust who can help you with this by acting as a sort of wingman, maybe take some video and notes along the way to help you document the experiences ( and look out for you ) ?

 

[Ufocurious]

I guess this is reminiscent of dreams which also rarely go as we would hope (if you're not a trained lucid dreamer) and place us in astonishingly detailed, but often unkown environments. But the DMT experience is probably much more intense.
NOPE. I AM A LUCID DREAMER. DMT IS LESS INTENSE. CRAZIER, BUT TOO OUTLANDISH. IN A LUCID DREAM I KNOW WHERE THE STUFF I AM DREAMING OF COMES FROM. IT DID NOT HAPPEN ON AYAHUASCA. PLUS I WAS NOT THE DIRECTOR, CHOOSING WHERE THE "DREAM" SHOULD GO.

So, do you think the images you got were entirely / partly / not at all "conjured up" by your subconscious or imagination? Was anything "going as expected"? For example, did the "machine elves" look anything like you imagined them before? Do you think they could have been actual, independent creatures?
I THINK IT WAS ME ALL THE TIME... ON A HYPERDRIVE CREATIVITY. THE INSIGHTS WERE MY INNER SELF.

I guess they were kind of like little stick-like humanoids (if I remember your post correctly). Funnily enough, the two photographers in Austria I've posted about (who photographed lots of "ligh phenomena" flying around) say that they have seen "entities" of that description in their garden and house. I don't know if they had taken something, and at the time I was really asking myself that, but actually they seem to be quite serious about it (although some of their stories are really out there).
SOMEONE ELSE SAID "STICK-LIKE". MY MACHINE ELVES WERE CARTOON-LIKE MIXED UP WITH CIRQUE DE SOLEIL.

Don't forget that one trip does not count much. Furthermore, I think our brains are powerful enough to come up with the craziest thing. But I give room for being something else just because Maybe I am not that creative and I have stumbled upon the akashic records for cartoon characters.
I hope you realize I am joking a bit. I don't take many things seriously enough.
However, the stuff I shared about my ecstatic experience is serious. Ayahuasca is an adventure. If it becomes serious I will tell.

 

[Ufocurious]

I'm glad you do.

Thankfully. The field doesn't need doped-up ufologists advocating that people get into doing drugs so that they can see ultraterrestrials.

Voila! And there it is. The next stop on the slippery slope; people who see aliens while they're high, and from there, they're only a hair's width away from becoming a drug tripper/contactee, or shall I say, "Shamanic UFO Emissary". Wrap it up however you want and it still spells UFO drug cult. You may have seen it as a completely innocent connection, but again, I'm glad that you now see my concern about how this type of thing can affect ufology, and why I need to be entirely objective about it.

Yes, we seemed to be off to a promising start, and I certainly won't write that off. Even if I can't give you my personal blessing to explore drug induced states of consciousness, it doesn't mean that I want to see you fail. I hope you find whatever it is you are looking for and emerge from it enriched enough that you don't need it anymore. From a UFO studies point of view I'd also be interested in hearing more about the contactee type experiences that you were talking about. They could make for an interesting chapter in the area of ufology sub-culture.

NOTE: Have you considered limiting the number of sessions to a specified amount? For example limit your number of trips to 10, try to keep a journal of them, and then quit for at least 6-8 months to reflect and assess the experiences? Do you have a straight friend who you trust who can help you with this by acting as a sort of wingman, maybe take some video and notes along the way to help you document the experiences ( and look out for you ) ?

Dear Ufology

I did not set a number. As long as the Ayahuasca experience does not affect my rational thinking I will give it a try.
I do have 2 straight friends keeping an eye on me. One thinks like you and the other does not want to know what his inner self wants to tell him.
My life has shown me that there is more than our physical realm. However to this day I am not sure how much of what I have experienced is between my ears and how much is not. I have had an experience with a physical outcome which I have shared with Tyger on another thread. Here it is:
I have had one paranormal phenomenon with physical outcome that still boggles my mind: we were at my parents' Summer house. The last bit of my son's toy dinosaur tail was lost. I was really upset because it was so cute. It came inside an egg. There was nothing I could do.

After the kids went to bed, like every night, I cleaned the glass top coffee table which we used as a drawing table. I cleaned with Windex and dried it perfectly in order to have it ready to go next morning. I went upstairs to check on them and came back to the living room to have some adult time on my own. My parents and husband were out.

When I came back, surprise surprise! The lost toy piece was on the top of the coffee table inside a large drop of water!?!
I was so happy! I thanked the elementals for bringing it back. And that was it. I just accepted that there are things we cannot explain.

What can I say? Life is really more exciting than our 3D world. As I have stated before I am very much inclined to believe in tricksters, both good and bad. I actually think most abductees and contactees are tricksters bait. Some are probably not, but we have no way to differentiate, therefore I dismiss their messianic messages. And if I encounter an ultradimensional being on Ayahuasca I will treat it as a trickster. Furthermore, I would never ever believe what they say. But I will post it anyway, with a warning: message received while high on DMT.

But even with all my believer skepticism about the other realm I always give others the benefit of doubt. They could be saying the truth.
It is like ETs messages. If they say we should become better people, point to them. If they come with dates for dimension jumping, recipes to become enlightened and so on... it is red flagged all over. Once I read somewhere that the ETs contactees are so fond of could be beings doing research on us to find out how sheepish we can be. That comment resonated well with me.