Excellent post. And thanks for the link to that Don Ecker program. Let's all never forget either that an interview with Keyhoe was blacked out early in a ufo program on CBS (as I recall) in the 1950s.
-
NEW! LOWEST RATES EVER -- SUPPORT THE SHOW AND ENJOY THE VERY BEST PREMIUM PARACAST EXPERIENCE! Welcome to The Paracast+, eight years young! For a low subscription fee, you can download the ad-free version of The Paracast and the exclusive, member-only, After The Paracast bonus podcast, featuring color commentary, exclusive interviews, the continuation of interviews that began on the main episode of The Paracast. We also offer lifetime memberships! Flash! Take advantage of our lowest rates ever! Act now! It's easier than ever to susbcribe! You can sign up right here!
Robert Sheaffer — August 24, 2014
- Thread starter Bananas
- Start date
Excellent post. And thanks for the link to that Don Ecker program. Let's all never forget either that an interview with Keyhoe was blacked out early in a ufo program on CBS (as I recall) in the 1950s.
(still wondering if Uncle Walter Chronkite ever told us what happened there if he was the interviewer, and I'm fairly sure he was)
Supposedly he was cut off when he deviated from the script.
They didn't let him continue after that, did they? Do you recall the date, Gene?
ada_potato
Paranormal Novice
taldwarf28
Paranormal Novice
Robert Sheaffer, what a zero!
Randall
J. Randall Murphy
Not engaging skeptics won't stop them from spreading their point of view. However engaging them and essentially beating them at their own game can help increase the credibility of those who are interested in UFOs or the paranormal. Plus, debating with skeptics can help illuminate the topic of discussion for everyone involved. If I'm being misled by faulty evidence or reasoning, I want to know. I want to be called out on it, and I'll gladly thank any skeptic who does that in a constructive way.
Sceptic's and debunker's are 2 different 'breeds' Randal, Sceptic's are mainly people with a curiosity that drive's them to find answer's, they go where the evidence take's them, each step critically reviewed, with no 'leap's of faith'.
Debunker's are an organised group, whose sole purpose's are 'noise' and 'dis-info, the hierarchy of modern bedunkery have been operating, and recruiting useful idiot's for the last 50yrs, Randi and his various platforms, not for profit org's etc, being one of the most obvious, and making an extremely good living out of all the doors it has opened for them.
Shaeffer can call himself whatever he like's, what he is, is someone who trie's to walk the line between sceptic and debunker, and fail's, he fails because he demonstrate's an over-whelming preference for debunker based research reference material, he fail's scepticism again and again and again everytime he repeat's another debunkers flawed research and out-right lie's as fact, everytime he does it, he repeat's that 'leap of faith'.
Debunker's are an organised group, whose sole purpose's are 'noise' and 'dis-info, the hierarchy of modern bedunkery have been operating, and recruiting useful idiot's for the last 50yrs, Randi and his various platforms, not for profit org's etc, being one of the most obvious, and making an extremely good living out of all the doors it has opened for them.
Shaeffer can call himself whatever he like's, what he is, is someone who trie's to walk the line between sceptic and debunker, and fail's, he fails because he demonstrate's an over-whelming preference for debunker based research reference material, he fail's scepticism again and again and again everytime he repeat's another debunkers flawed research and out-right lie's as fact, everytime he does it, he repeat's that 'leap of faith'.
Last edited:
Audio of the television program is available in this thread from November 2013 together with follow up shows (Keyhoe did read content that was cutted off from television program in John Long Nebel program. Also Irve Tunick, writer of the Armstrong Circle Theater, was also interviewed and he gave his perspective of the incident - track 13 from 10:10 min.):
Index & Description
Wendy Connors 'Faded Discs' - journeys through audio UFO history - available in public domain!!! | The Paracast Community Forums
Album index:
Wendy Connors - UFOLOGY A PRIMER in AUDIO 1947 â 1964 Volume 1 (2nd edit.) : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive
Tracks in question:
09: ARMSTRONG CIRCLE THEATER: UFO, the Enigma of the Skies
Date of Broadcast: 01.22.1958
Running Time: 00:52:00
Synopsis: Hosted by Douglas Edwards. Guests were: Major Donald E. Keyhoe, USMC Ret.,
Col. Spencer Whedon, USAF and Dr. Donald Menzel. This is the program that allegedly
censored Keyhoe, causing hard feelings between both himself and the United States Air
Force over their secrecy regarding the UFO phenomenon. Kenneth Arnold declined to
appear at the last minute and his explanation can be heard on the 03.26.1958 Long John
Nebel Party Line recording listed further down in this guide. Captain Edward J. Ruppelt, first
and former Director of the USAF Project Blue Book was also scheduled to appear on the
program, but could not get a leave of absence from his employer to attend the program.
Tracks 09, 10 and 13 relate to this infamous controversy.
10: MIKE WALLACE INTERVIEWS, The
Date of Broadcast: 03:25:1958
Running Time: 00:25:30
Synopsis: Major Donald E. Keyhoe, USMC, Ret. Is interviewed regarding the alleged
censorship on the Armstrong Circle Theater and his / NICAP's position regarding UFOs and
the Extra-terrestrial Hypothesis (ETH).
13: NICAP versus USAF on CENSORSHIP of UFO INFORMATION
Date of Broadcast: 03.26.1958
Running Time: 04:06:22
Synopsis: Guests: Major Donald E. Keyhoe, USMC Ret., Cortland Hastings, Charles
Ledham, Jules B. St. Germaine, Ben Isquith and Dave Fields. Historically important
recording covering the rise of the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena
(NICAP), alleged Keyhoe censorship and the influence of the Contactee Movement on
legitimate UFO investigations. Commercials edited out during the Keyhoe visit. Ben Isquith
joins the group after Keyhoe departs. Nebel goes too great lengths to promote NICAP and
every one of the guests were members. This aspect, however, did not give Keyhoe any
leniency as far as tough questions asked of him by the other guests. For all intents and
purposes, Keyhoe and the U.S. Air Force had become enemies over the censorship issue.
Last twenty minutes of this program is missing.
Last edited:
In those early days, Long John took telegrams from listeners rather than take phone calls. One of the telegrams came from two teenagers in Brooklyn asking Major Keyhoe why he deviated from the script on that CBS TV show if he knew he'd be cut off. I'm not sure if my name or the name of my close friend Ken Alpert was mentioned. You can't believe what a telegram cost in those days, but Ken's mom was only too happy to help. Well, at least she was persuaded to do so.
In passing, they didn't have 7 second delays in those days, so a live show was a live show.
In passing, they didn't have 7 second delays in those days, so a live show was a live show.
The television broadcast archives from the University of Texas at Austin linked above by @ada_potato help to clear this up. CBS evidently presented two interviews with Keyhoe in early 1958. The first was broadcast on January 22, 1958 (on the Armstrong Circle Theater program), which was the occasion on which Keyhoe's audio was turned off when he strayed from the pre-approved script. Richard Hall of NICAP provided this account of the censorship and the significant public reaction:
armstrong
About two months later, on March 8, 1958, CBS presented another interview with Major Keyhoe, this one conducted by Mike Wallace, the transcript of which is available here:
Major Donald E. Keyhoe: The Mike Wallace Interview
As Keyhoe states several times in his second appearance, the Air Force and the US government were treating the American public like children by censoring documentary evidence revealing the seriousness with which they responded to the ufo phenomena. These attempts by Keyhoe to clarify the actual situation for the public took place 11 years after Roswell, 5 years after the Robertson Panel, and while scientists at the Battelle Institute were still attempting to reproduce the characteristics of the Roswell metal debris and evaluating all the most significant ufo cases, by then diverted from Blue Book and public notice. Within a decade the Air Force succeeded in divesting itself entirely of the obligation to share ufo information with the public through the manipulations by Edward Condon of the University of Arizona committee's research concerning ufos. Most of us here know all this and understand that these were just the high-water marks of the evidence of the US government's cover-up of its own concern about ufos since 1947, continuing to the present day. Anyone who still claims in August of 2014 that no coverup has existed because there was nothing to cover up is operating out of either sublime ignorance or the intent to spread disinformation and maintain doubt. So why should we be interested in the opinions of such people, and subject ourselves to their manipulations?
Thanks for those links, ufo radio. I look forward to hearing and reading them.
fastwalker
Skilled Investigator
Anyone who still claims in August of 2014 that no coverup has existed because there was nothing to cover up is operating out of either sublime ignorance or the intent to spread disinformation and maintain doubt. So why should we be interested in the opinions of such people, and subject ourselves to their manipulations? Constance...
I agree, I find it extremely troubling the news threads that are presented to the unaware masses. We see violence every time you watch any news feed of the most horrific natures, the propagation of war and violence and the continued strife between races and religions, utterly stupid nonsense, when there are genuine news things, worthy things that would help us as a species. My dream is a world when I finish my time here I can say yes I want to buried in a cave on mars or wherever in God's creation that suites me, in other-words; something only a unified human race could to do. I am in my fifties now and back in high school I was convinced that cars would be flying now and travel to and back to the moon would be as commonplace as going to see grandma in California.
" I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulderof Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate." Batty, 'BLADERUNNER'
While this line from Bladerunner does talk about war, I want to live in a world were I can say things, like the above or something like "I have seen the ice flows in the rings of Saturn."
Whether it is break away technology, awful alien truth or we are simply alone or any other suspected truth, we need the truth... That is my rant, thanks.
I agree, I find it extremely troubling the news threads that are presented to the unaware masses. We see violence every time you watch any news feed of the most horrific natures, the propagation of war and violence and the continued strife between races and religions, utterly stupid nonsense, when there are genuine news things, worthy things that would help us as a species. My dream is a world when I finish my time here I can say yes I want to buried in a cave on mars or wherever in God's creation that suites me, in other-words; something only a unified human race could to do. I am in my fifties now and back in high school I was convinced that cars would be flying now and travel to and back to the moon would be as commonplace as going to see grandma in California.
" I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulderof Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate." Batty, 'BLADERUNNER'
While this line from Bladerunner does talk about war, I want to live in a world were I can say things, like the above or something like "I have seen the ice flows in the rings of Saturn."
Whether it is break away technology, awful alien truth or we are simply alone or any other suspected truth, we need the truth... That is my rant, thanks.
Chris Talbert
Paranormal Novice
I just started listening to the paracast. A friend turned me on. I'm a skeptic, but I have some questions about some things. I appreciate that this podcast does includes some skeptics (it's healthy ... it's the scientific method ... good evidence stands up to scrutiny). I also appreciate that the hosts poke holes in people that are obvious nutcases and and don't let them babel on unchallenged.
I've listened to that "Coast to Coast" program from time to time and often turn off the radio in disgust when someone is allowed to blather psychotic fantasies. Some of those folks need help not airtime.
A healthy attitude of skepticism at least got me to listen.
Sorry if I offend? First post.
I've listened to that "Coast to Coast" program from time to time and often turn off the radio in disgust when someone is allowed to blather psychotic fantasies. Some of those folks need help not airtime.
A healthy attitude of skepticism at least got me to listen.
Sorry if I offend? First post.
Thanks for listening.
Jeff Crowell
Paranormal Annoyance
Scheaffer quoted the Royal Society of London for Improving Natural Knowledge's motto, Nullius in verba, is Latin for "Take nobody's word for it" several times during the interview, but nothing encompasses a major flaw of Skeptibunker'y more than this saying. So, if a physicist tells me that the speed of light is 186,000 miles per second, do I believe him? Well....no. Sure, he has a 'degree' in physics but he's human, he's flawed because of that, therefore his claim of the speed of light should not be taken as truth. No, instead if someone wants to know the speed of light they will need to reproduce every experiment which led to the belief that the speed of light is 186,000 miles per second.
Don't believe what your doctor says. He could be wrong. Get your medical degree and learn only for yourself.
Don't believe what astronomers say.
...or physicists....
...or your spouse....
Remember that everybody just speaks words, and you cannot believe anybody's word.
Armed with this philosophy, debunkers come across as less believable than followers of UFO cults, contactees, or psychics. They can't adhere to their own mottos...it would be impossible to do. "Take nobody's word for it" means that we have to re-invent the wheel throughout science every generation. It's a broken and impossible stance.
My two cents.
J.
Don't believe what your doctor says. He could be wrong. Get your medical degree and learn only for yourself.
Don't believe what astronomers say.
...or physicists....
...or your spouse....
Remember that everybody just speaks words, and you cannot believe anybody's word.
Armed with this philosophy, debunkers come across as less believable than followers of UFO cults, contactees, or psychics. They can't adhere to their own mottos...it would be impossible to do. "Take nobody's word for it" means that we have to re-invent the wheel throughout science every generation. It's a broken and impossible stance.
My two cents.
J.
Take nobody's word for it — not even Robert Sheaffer. 
Burnt State
Paranormal Adept
Certainly more valuable than pennies. Sometimes it's the person posing as rational skeptic, who is busy inventing things out of thin air, or air thick with swamp gas, that is truly the oddball. I turn my radio off in disgust at those moments.
fastwalker
Skilled Investigator
"Take nobody's word for it..."
Well it seems Mr. Sheaffer continues to generate comments and I was thinking about his medical record comment that upon discharge from the military you get a copy of your medical records and for some reason that kept bugging me. I was pretty sure all I got was a copy of my shot record. I still have my discharge packet and orders from 1981 and so I dug it out and there were no medical records, just a shot record, discharge orders, DD214, etc. Take nobody's word for it indeed...
Well it seems Mr. Sheaffer continues to generate comments and I was thinking about his medical record comment that upon discharge from the military you get a copy of your medical records and for some reason that kept bugging me. I was pretty sure all I got was a copy of my shot record. I still have my discharge packet and orders from 1981 and so I dug it out and there were no medical records, just a shot record, discharge orders, DD214, etc. Take nobody's word for it indeed...