Abduction Narratives with Alien Technology

[Burnt State]

What I'm always enamoured with is the abduction narrative. It takes a lot of guts, or you have to really be seeking a different kind of limelight, to admit to being abducted by aliens to anyone, really. I have a lot of sympathy & intrigue for those little known abduction stories that never got made into movies (Travis Walton), produced cults of personalities (Whitley Strieber) or reared bizarre but popular, hoaxed distortions (Stan Romanek).

The two stories i link to below just happened to catch my web searching eye as i was looking around for older, lesser known abduction stories. Barney and Betty are now as common as the Flinstones in terms of abduction lore. What is unique about their story, like all abductee stories, are the details pertaining to technology, ship interiors, the way that the abductors communicate telepathically, the types of uniforms and physiological details of the humanoids that are seen. If you haven't see an alien stopping by through Pascagoula then you haven't seen anything!



History of UFO Research 1

In the above link Emenegger details an exceptional story about Onilson Papero "This case was filed with the Aerial Phenomenon Research Organization by Brazilian UFO investigator Mrs. Irene Granchi.5 The case begins in a routine manner. At about 3:00 A.M. on May 22, 1973…" and by the time the case is finished this guy has had a tremendously bizarre encounter that has some excellent corroboration from other witnesses who found poor Onilson in a terrible state, face down unconsciousness outside his car. The details of the case are absolutely fantastic and feature a tremendous piece of alien technology:

He looked up again and heard a buzzing sound. At this point Papero realized that he was not observing a helicopter. The object looked like "two upside-down soup plates" about twenty-five feet thick and thirty-six feet wide. It was dull-dark gray, but Papero could not make out structural details. The entire area was illuminated, but Papero could not see the source of the light. He still felt the heat and stuffiness. As he watched the object, he noticed a "transparent curtain" slowly encircling the object from the right side to the left. When it completely encircled the object, the sensation of heat and lack of air ended. As this occurred, a "tube" came out of the object's bottom and stretched towards the ground.

The thought suddenly went through Papero's mind that might be kidnapped. He panicked and began to run away from the object into the woods. He had run about a hundred feet when he felt something was holding him back. It was like a "rubber lasso" around him. He frantically tried to get away from the thing holding him back by waving his arms in back of him, but when he did this he found that there was nothing physical behind him.

He turned and looked back at his car. A "blue tube-like torch of light" about seven inches in diameter was coming from the bottom of the object's "brim." When the light struck Papero's car, it seemed to become transparent. He claimed to be able to see the engine, the seats, and all other parts of his car. Papero's mind raced. Unable to grasp what he was seeing, he automatically began to think "mundane" thoughts - his car might be "melted," and he had not finished the payments on it yet. Either because of what he saw was too much for his mind to accept or because of a physical reason, Papero fainted.

The details regarding this x-ray vision light beam technology is exactly the kind of nuance you want to hear in a great UFO story, especially a possible abduction one like this.

The other case that really caught me by surprise was the bandwagon case where a band is travelling back from a gig and they take on a passenger to drive home. They think things are fine till they encounter a strange object on the little travelled road they took for some reason. The vehicle can't move, is lifting off the ground and floating towards the saucer...out comes some little characters who are trying to get in the van. The hitchhiker opens the door and suddenly these guys are all agreeing to strip down for the friendly aliens, are lying on stretchers and stuff happens. It closes with a nice song played for the alien and the gifting to him a musical souvenir to remind him of the fond times he had probing and analysing these three guys on a dark deserted road. The alien is compassionate, apologetic and sincere in promising that nothing bad will happen. Our narrator is it tears at the end of it all.

Now this is a case that Budd Hopkins retrieved from the hypnotic memory back of this guy many years later. No real confirmation about what the other bandmates have to say today about it. But this detail caught my attention:

Now he saw one of the little guys wheeling a cart over towards him with what looked like a tray of instruments on it. Some looked like dental probes, and lights. Picking up a black thing that looked like the handle of a phone the alien said," I'm going to show you how this thing works, then I would like to try it on you”. “Will it hurt?”. “No". With that the alien shone light on his coat which promptly became invisible, only showing his arm underneath. Repeating the process on Tom he was able to see his muscles, arteries and bone; also the veins contracting and expanding in time with his heartbeat was then told to lay down on the cot as they wanted to view the rest of his body, which they viewed on a large screen. After this he was told to “look at this light”, Tom tried but found himself pulling away from viewing it as it pulsated in concentric circles, producing a hypnotic effect and a sense of drowsiness. “Look at it, there’s something I want you to see”, he was told.

The Band Wagon Encounter

So take it anyway you like, i just happen to enjoy some of these odd features found in these cases: interactions with earth vehicles, the use of invisible forces to restrain and constrain abductees, their complicity as seen in the second case and this really exceptional technology that allows you to see through things, the way that those x-ray glasses promised they would, in the back of the comic books i read as a kid. What examples of "magical" technology keep you interested and pursuing the notion of an alien apparatus operating here on earth?

 

[Wade]

I cast my vote for Pier Zanfretta, I'm surprised I don't hear his story come up more often.
Although I think his own retelling did alter a little over the years when he described his host's appearances.

His story indicates he was a 4x abductee and his story also includes a man in a checked/plaid shirt...One of my favorite memes...and a witness that later took his own life.

 

[Burnt State]

It is an excellent story. Here's his hypnosis regression:

 

[manxman]

Ofcourse abduction's are not beyond the realm's of possibility, if one believes the transportation of ET to earth is possible.
I just cannot see why, what's the point.
I mean taking samples/specimen's home has a point, but just a drop ya pant's and a quick look or finger up your jacksy and away, i just dont get it, unless it's some kind of inter-galactic airport security.

I do know from previous research that many million's of people a year just vanish, people from all walk's of life, and all age group's, never to be seen or heard from again, some in the oddest of ways/circumstance's.

 

[Burnt State]

Re: missing people and abductions.

An enormous amount of people go missing every year. Most are young people escaping abusive spaces and then there are adults escaping marriages and the tax man. What's interesting in Zanfretta's tales of the super heated reptilian aliens, whom he claimed abducted him multiple times, is that at one point he was found near his car while raining outside. He was dry to the touch and very hot as was as all parts of his own vehicle including the roof were super heated. He was found in a state if despair calling out, "They say I have to go with them. But I can't. I can't leave my family!" Quite a scene.

In some of these narratives where folks are found by the side of the road all distraught and in strange states it's very hard to understand what's happening...if not abduction then some rare sort of fugue state, schizophrenic momentary break, an undiagnosed epileptic fit? Zanfretta did not want attention or cash, but because of the first instance's circumstances he was suddenly catapulted into the limelight and was ostracized by the whole town. It's curious.

 

[Burnt State]

I cast my vote for Pier Zanfretta, I'm surprised I don't hear his story come up more often.
Although I think his own retelling did alter a little over the years when he described his host's appearances.

His story indicates he was a 4x abductee and his story also includes a man in a checked/plaid shirt...One of my favorite memes...and a witness that later took his own life.

It's been a while since I read any of this tale and just recently went through a historical synopsis of the story. If those details are accurate then I would also make this the most compelling case for alien abduction that I've ver read. The amount of substantiating evidence appears to be well beyond the threshold of anecdotal and appear to be more substantiating. It's a very compelling case.

I felt as I was reading through the story that there was som definite mental decompensation by Zanfretta as time goes on and then faded away I suppose - a momentary case of alien abduction across a handful of years - seems to be closer of six or seven encounters...

But this part of the story leading up to the colleague's death certainly tells us about the gravity of the story. The impact and consequences of aliens on earth are in fact shattering for some people:

While driving in the hills of Genoa searching for their missing cohort, four patrol guards claimed to have clearly seen a very strange, cloud-like object floating above them. Suddenly, two beams of light seemed emanate from within the large “cloud,” illuminating the patrol cars below.

The vehicles’ engines concurrently stopped dead and the frightened, yet curious, guards got out of their patrol cards to get a better look at this UFO. Apparently the Chief, Lt. Cassiba, became so frightened by the sight before them that fired his pistol at the unknown object. It was then that the ethereal lights were extinguished and the UFO slipped away.

Sadly, Lt. Cassiba’s frightened reaction would not be the most tragic result of this unusual eyewitness event. One of those guards, Germano Zanardi, was so traumatized by the implications of what they had seen that it was said he never fully recovered his mental stability. A few months following this encounter he ended his life with a self inflicted gunshot to the head.

From: Phantoms and Monsters: Pulse of the Paranormal

This particular story is certainly worth a more detailed accounting. I'd love a Paracast episode with a thorough examination of this case. It has compiled 60 secondary witnesses for the case - absolutely fascinating and unique in the annals of UFO abduction lore. Anyonegot some expertise in this case?

This is a sample boot print of scores of prints surrounding Zanfretta's car following a reported second abduction. Four or five rounds were fired from his gun but he does not remember firing them. These were exceptionally large aliens as reported. They told Zanfretta they will be retuning soon in much greater numbers. The negative effect on his life fom the publicity, his colleague's suicde, the threats to career and family - all of this makes Travis Walton's case look a lot more shoddy and improbable IMHO.

 

[Heidi Lemmer]

This case is a trip, first time I've heard of it also. It seems more credible because of the extreme heat on car, the footprints, witnesses to lights, etc. Almost makes the Linda Cortelle case more believable!

 

[Burnt State]

Ok, @Heidi Lemmer at Linda C. I draw the line because it was she that said these other people existed and said they were there. I see that as very different than Zanfretta's many witnesses who really did exist and see things. Cortile's secondary witnesses are pretty much all confabulations of her mind, with perhaps some assistance with the mailman for delivering her fake letters. Why Budd Hopkins hanged his hat on this case is a mystery of its own making, and wow, was there ever a lot of ufological poison that unfolded as a consequence.

Still I agree though that Zanfretta's case, on the face of it, makes a lot of impossible tales seem that much more possible, or permissible to believe perhaps, maybe both. It is one weird case that had its own bizarre set of consequences that unfolded in the real world with harrowing consequences.

 

[Heidi Lemmer]

Ok, @Heidi Lemmer at Linda C. I draw the line because it was she that said these other people existed and said they were there. I see that as very different than Zanfretta's many witnesses who really did exist and see things. Cortile's secondary witnesses are pretty much all confabulations of her mind, with perhaps some assistance with the mailman for delivering her fake letters. Why Budd Hopkins hanged his hat on this case is a mystery of its own making, and wow, was there ever a lot of ufological poison that unfolded as a consequence.

Still I agree though that Zanfretta's case, on the face of it, makes a lot of impossible tales seem that much more possible, or permissible to believe perhaps, maybe both. It is one weird case that had its own bizarre set of consequences that unfolded in the real worl with harrowing consequences.

Yah, pretty much agree that the Linda C. cases is untouchable.

 

[mike]

Ofcourse abduction's are not beyond the realm's of possibility, if one believes the transportation of ET to earth is possible.
I just cannot see why, what's the point.
I mean taking samples/specimen's home has a point, but just a drop ya pant's and a quick look or finger up your jacksy and away, i just dont get it, unless it's some kind of inter-galactic airport security.

I do know from previous research that many million's of people a year just vanish, people from all walk's of life, and all age group's, never to be seen or heard from again, some in the oddest of ways/circumstance's.

Ive actually written quite extensively about possible reasons for abduction, scenarios that make sense are always outside the box ones.
Trying to fit it into a normal context dont, i agree make much sense.

One of my favourites is DNA as a storage medium

Deoxyribonucleic acid or DNA – the chemical that stores genetic instructions in almost all known organisms – has an impressive data capacity. One gram can store up to 455bn gigabytes: the contents of more than 100bn DVDs, making it the ultimate in compact storage media

DNA has numerous advantages over traditional digital storage media. It can be easily copied, and is often still readable after thousands of years in non-ideal conditions. Unlike ever-changing electronic storage formats such as magnetic tape and DVDs, the fundamental techniques required to read and write DNA information are as old as life on Earth.

We may be being used as a library, and we are the books

 

[Wade]

An interesting idea but doesn't our limited lifespan inhibit this process ?

 

[mike]

An interesting idea but doesn't our limited lifespan inhibit this process ?

Not in the least, and it may explain the aspect of the narrative that mentions abductions reoccuring in family/bloodlines.

Data could have been coded into my Great great great to the 1ooth power grandparent, and it would available for retrieval today

Biological systems have been using DNA as an information storage molecule for billions of years. Vast amounts of data can thus be encoded within microscopic volumes, and we carry the proof of this concept in the cells of our own bodies
Could this ultimate storage solution meet the ever-growing needs of archivists in this age of digital information?

DNA data storage: 100 million hours of HD video in every cup


Researchers have done it again—encoding 5.2 million bits of digital data in strings of DNA and demonstrating the feasibility of using DNA as a long-term, data-dense storage medium for massive amounts of information. In the new study released today (January 23) in Nature, researchers encoded one color photograph, 26 seconds of Martin Luther King Jr.’s “I Have a Dream” speech, and all 154 of Shakespeare’s known sonnets into DNA

Scientists have long recognized DNA’s potential as a long-term storage medium. “DNA is a very, very dense piece of information storage,” explained study author Ewan Birney of the European Molecular Biology Laboratory-European Bioinformatics Institute

http://www.the-scientist.com/?artic...09/title/DNA-based-Data-Storage-Here-to-Stay/

Harvard cracks DNA storage, crams 700 terabytes of data into a single gram | ExtremeTech



More than 98 percent of all DNA, was called "Junk DNA" by molecular biologists, because they were unable to ascribe any function to it. They assumed that it was just "molecular garbage". If it were "junk", the sequence of the "syllables", i.e. the nucleotides in DNA should be completely random.
However it has been found that the sequence of the syllables is not random at all and has a striking resemblance with the structure of human language (ref. Flam, F. "Hints of a language in junk DNA", Science 266:1320, 1994, see quote below). Therefore, scientists now generally believe that this DNA must contain some kind of coded information. But the code and its function is yet completely unknown.

Junk DNA" - Over 98 percent of DNA has largely unknown function

The narrative in regards to sperm and ova collection also fits this idea, It would be within these cells that the data would be most likely to be in uncorrupted form.
Other cells in the body would contain the data, but are more prone to free radical degradation etc

 

[manxman]

That's the most interesting idea ive read in age's, im going to give those links a good read thru tomorrow, its late here.

 

[mike]

As i said it would explain the preoccupation with the "reproductive" systems.
That is after all their specialised function, to make transportable copies of the entire data set.

As i understand it anal probing seems to be a male experience, and is often associated with involuntary erection/ejaculation.
Females seem to get the needle in the belly routine.

 

[Wade]

This is pretty interesting stuff. It occured to me last night that because we humans are made from "cosmic dust" we may also have the history of the universe in ourselves. Probably the same for other races. So we may not be just books but history books as well.

 

[Burnt State]

Here's an article specific to this thread. It's primary contention is that the alien abduction narrative that involves unique technology where humans are dehumanized, technologized and of course probed wth unique technology is all a response to the technologizing of our own society. The abduction is then an expression of a collective anxiety about the path of technology and it's impact on our cultural psyche.

I can get into some of that thematics as the primary reason why I left Toronto, Canada's version of a large city, was that I could not stand the tech. I hated the metal, the sirens (a little nod to Radio Misterioso), the lack of trees, all the pavement and noise of urbanity. It was all in decay and so was I. After 10 years of renting apartments and breathing smog I finally decided to hike it out of there and settle down in a quiet city like the one I grew up in, with a yard big enough that I could surround myself with trees, not see the neighbours and not deal with all the metal. If you're a fan of Sharkbait then you already know all about this need to crush the metal. It's just bad for your complexion that stuff.

But this essay, as cultural analysis, cites some of the biggies in the field i.e. Bullard, Vallée and the gang and makes some interesting arguments around how this experience quantifies a collective anxiety over being robotocized, among other things, hence the reason why those pesky aliens just have total control over abductees, are often so unemotional about it all as if they were robots themselves. A small excerpt of this lengthy discussion is below. Good stuff...

UFO-Abduction Narratives and the Technology of Tradition

Kimberly Ball

Abstract: This article examines UFO-abduction narratives posted to online discussion fora, and argues that these narratives reflect millennial anxieties over an anticipated hyper-technological future figured as "alien." In particular, UFO-abduction narratives reflect concerns over developments in those technologies used to transmit information over space and time, i.e., technologies of tradition. These narratives thus thematize the circumstances of their own transmission, and developments in the transmission of traditional lore more generally.
____________________

The first to point out a connection between UFO phenomena and the supernatural phenomena of tradition was astronomer Jacques Vallee, who, in 1969, suggested that the similarity among accounts of UFOs, demons, angels, fairies, and ghosts provides evidence against the extraterrestrial hypothesis of UFO origins (Vallee 1969). Folklorists have since heeded Linda Dégh's call to study reports of encounters with UFOs and those who pilot them as legends, hence as part of a tradition of anomalous-experience narratives describing human dealings with unusual beings of various kinds (Dégh 1977). In particular, Thomas Bullard and Peter Rojcewicz have contributed to an understanding of the links between UFO- and fairy-lore, observing that informants' descriptions of aliens bear a remarkable resemblance to traditional accounts of anthropomorphic supernaturals, not least in the propensity of both groups to abduct human beings (Bullard 1989; Rojcewicz 1991).

A major factor distinguishing the two groups is the aliens' use of highly advanced technology, which is, from a human standpoint, futuristic. Accordingly, several scholars have interpreted the UFO-abduction narrative as a reaction to technological change, in one form or another (Dean 1998, 126-52; Luckhurst 1998, 38-40; Bullard 2000, 156-7; Barbeito 2005, 206-10; Dewan 2006, 197; Kelley-Romano 2006, 394; Brown 2007, 70-82, 85-99). I would like to contribute to this conversation by proposing that these narratives are especially concerned with developments in those technologies used to transmit information over space and time—what I am terming "technologies of tradition." I introduce this term to refer to any device for conveying knowledge or culture from one context into another, and to serve as a reminder that technology is intrinsic to tradition, even if it is only that most fundamental technology of tradition: language. Casting the matter in this way discourages the tendency to see technology as opposed to tradition, and allows the anxieties engendered by recent developments in new media to be contextualized within a long history of anxiety over changes to the ways in which elements of the past are brought into the future. The latest major development in the technology of tradition is the advent of the Internet, which represents the culmination of advancements in two spheres: digital information technology and mass media. Through an analysis of various motifs, I will argue that UFO-abduction narratives express anxieties over the rapid changes in these two spheres during the period in which these stories have been told, from the mid-twentieth century to the present. In particular, I argue that these narratives thematize the circumstances of their own transmission, which occurs today in large part via the Internet.2

Though referencing studies published by abduction investigators, this article focuses on the UFO-abduction narrative as it exists online, where numerous sites host discussion fora in which participants report their own and comment on one another's abduction experiences.3 I have amassed a database of a little over 200 abduction narratives from English-language discussion fora, each of which is embedded in or, indeed, constituted by a discussion with multiple participants. Online-forum participants contribute their narratives spontaneously in an informal setting, responding to questions and comments from other participants who stand on a more or less equal footing with themselves. Instead of playing an active role, the researcher may choose, as I have done, to stand outside this process. As Jan Fernback and Trevor Blank have individually observed, the online discussion forum is therefore an ideal site to study legend, a genre that unfolds in conversation, often as a debate regarding matters of contested ontological status which informants might feel abashed to discuss in the presence of the academic researcher (Fernback 2003; Blank 2007). Despite these inherent advantages, there has thus far been little study of legends on the Internet. The UFO-abduction narrative is a particularly apt subject for such a study, and a legend of particular interest at this time, in that it confronts one of the central concerns of our age: humanity's transformation through its engagement with technology.

From: Cultural Analysis, Volume 9, 2010: UFO-Abduction Narratives and the Technology of Tradition / Kimberly Ball

 

[mike]

Yes, but imo ideas like this only work with selected compartmentalised aspects of the total story.
Could we draw the same conclusions with just the sighting of a disk shaped craft by policemen? or Pilot and radar cases ?

The simple explanation that satisfys all facets of the UFO question is non terrestrial entitys visiting us.

Im more inclined to suspect aspects of the narrative that dont seem to make sense, are related to our cultural and scientific limitations at this point in time.

The cargo culters are an example, were the planes they worshiped expressions of their own psychology ? or just technology they were unable to put into proper context.

Personally i think our own advancing technology is the key to understanding the UFO question in proper context.

The example i posted earlier being one possibility. Yes mass abduction and repeated interest in our reproductive organs makes little sense in the context of 20th/21st century medical technology. But it may make complete sense in the context of emerging technologys like DNA data storage.

 

[Burnt State]

I think that there is always an external stimulus that's interacting with a physiological process and the translation 0f that stimulus may result in certain in pre-recorded expressions brain-perceptions hence the UFO, or even the Abduction event. I can see how socio-cultural paradigms play an enormous role in realizing our perceptions of anomalous stimulus. This might also help to explain why the technolgy perceived is in flux across time but always looks like next generation human tech.

At the same time @mike i don't see a one theory fits all explanation for the phenomena, but that many elements and points of origin are in play always and that anthropological answers may play a role in the abduction phenomenon.

http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~mrbworks/articles/1996_Banaji_PI.pdf

 

[Stagger Lee]

Ok, @Heidi Lemmer at Linda C. I draw the line because it was she that said these other people existed and said they were there. I see that as very different than Zanfretta's many witnesses who really did exist and see things. Cortile's secondary witnesses are pretty much all confabulations of her mind, with perhaps some assistance with the mailman for delivering her fake letters. Why Budd Hopkins hanged his hat on this case is a mystery of its own making, and wow, was there ever a lot of ufological poison that unfolded as a consequence.

Still I agree though that Zanfretta's case, on the face of it, makes a lot of impossible tales seem that much more possible, or permissible to believe perhaps, maybe both. It is one weird case that had its own bizarre set of consequences that unfolded in the real world with harrowing consequences.

Still hard to totally dismiss the Cortile case- if we are to believe that Hopkins was in touch with Janet Kimball, a witness of the event while driving across the bridge. For one person (L Cortile) to have played Hopkins like that, hard to wrap my head around. Of course, the same could be said for the case itself, as presented by Hopkins.

 

[Tyger]

It is an excellent story. Here's his hypnosis regression:

It's been a while since I read any of this tale and just recently went through a historical synopsis of the story. If those details are accurate then I would also make this the most compelling case for alien abduction that I've ver read. The amount of substantiating evidence appears to be well beyond the threshold of anecdotal and appear to be more substantiating. It's a very compelling case.
[...]
But this part of the story leading up to the colleague's death certainly tells us about the gravity of the story. The impact and consequences of aliens on earth are in fact shattering for some people: From: Phantoms and Monsters: Pulse of the Paranormal
[...]

This is a sample boot print of scores of prints surrounding Zanfretta's car following a reported second abduction. Four or five rounds were fired from his gun but he does not remember firing them. These were exceptionally large aliens as reported. They told Zanfretta they will be retuning soon in much greater numbers. The negative effect on his life fom the publicity, his colleague's suicde, the threats to career and family [...].

Fascinating. I was not aware of this case. If I was at one time, I've long forgotten it. Very puzzling. Very strange.

I flashed on two things as I read the historical re-cap: I recalled the image of the 'miracle' at Fatima when 'the sun danced in the sky' in October of 1917, observed by thousands of people in that place, while the sun shone normally across the globe at the same moment. LINK: Miracle of the Sun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Though it is stated that: "Pope Pius XII himself witnessed the miracle of the sun from the Vatican gardens."

More detail from Wiki: "According to many witnesses, after a period of rain, the dark clouds broke and "the sun" appeared as an opaque, spinning disc in the sky. It was said to be significantly duller than normal, and to cast multicolored lights across the landscape, the shadows on the landscape, the people, and the surrounding clouds. The sun was then reported to have careened towards the earth in a zigzag pattern, frightening those who thought it a sign of the end of the world. Witnesses reported that their previously wet clothes became "suddenly and completely dry, as well as the wet and muddy ground that had been previously soaked because of the rain that had been falling". Estimates of the number of people present range from between 30,000 to 40,000 by Avelino de Almeida, writing for the Portuguese newspaper O Século to 100,000, estimated by Dr. Joseph Garrett, professor of natural sciences at the University of Coimbra, both of whom were present on that day."

Wiki also quotes from the newspaper reports that quote the witnesses and what they experienced. The heat and the dryness stands out. Wiki: "According to De Marchi, "Engineers that have studied the case reckoned that an incredible amount of energy would have been necessary to dry up those pools of water that had formed on the field in a few minutes as it was reported by witnesses." "

My second thought centers around my esoteric background. Pure speculation on my part, using the context of esoteric lore which in this area is woefully sketchy I am feeling. Makes me want to go back to some of the primary sources - if I can find them again. Anyway, there are 'sub-levels' to this 'world'. I am meaning this in 'spiritual terms' - which does not mean any less 'real'. Anyway, these sub-realms have been generally 'in their place' - and are not places humans, or anything from 'here' is 'suppose to go'. These beings are very powerful - and very evil - and one esoteric teacher in the 1800's went so far as to give their name out of the ancient texts but said doing so - even saying their name - was a form of invocation. Under no circumstance was the magician to try to invoke these beings.

So saying, when I read in the above abduction case about 'the third galaxy' it got me thinking what was really meant by 'galaxy', and by 'planet'. For Fatima the iconography is religious - within the context of Catholicism/Christian motifs. For Zanfretta - for anyone in the latter part of the 20th century - what is the most accessible iconography, via films and the popular imagination since the late 1940's into the 'saucer hysteria' of the 1950's? Alien visitations.

I do not for one moment doubt that this case is real. It happened. These were real experiences, tragically so in one case. However, it is clear that there are no all-powerful alien fleets of ships flying to earth though space with clear authority and overarching intent. (Or if there are, they strike me as peculiarly obtuse/dumb and blunted in effect). What is being experienced and observed? Is a threshold being crossed? But while our popular imagination says it's a 'galactic' issue, might it be a 'sub-world' crossing. I assume I am shadowing the 'inter-dimensional' ideas - which I am not familiar with. I have just heard the phrase here on this chat site. But as one always tries to incorporate new ideas into one's standing set of ideas about the world, it seems to me - given the 'aliens' actual weakness in this real/world, they might be from the sub-worlds. Pure unadulterated speculation on my part - trying to make sense of this case that impresses with it's verity. If this were the case - the 'aliens' have no ability to exist unless we give them the capacity to exist in our world. From all that I gather they are actually quite weak. Just thinking out loud.