Joshua Warren show

[mike]

Great show guys,
His comments on the brown mountain lights, are spot on
150 years ago the old cow poke sees a ghost, today technology has caught up and today we see "plasma"
Understanding the mechanisms with the correct scientific explanations is key imo

Its our terminology/jargon that needs to catch up to the phenomena, once we have the terminology we have the answer

 

[Ofaebtas]

Yeah, I liked the show, though I wish you woulda asked him about some of the other stuff he's done like "Inside the Church of Satan" and the event he puts together/participates in where they have a contest on who makes the best UFO hoax.

 

[dyingsun]

It was a good show, kudos to hosts and guest from me as well.

 

[Han]

I really enjoyed the show and I think mr Warrens idea of getting more people involved in the field is a very good one, however I would like to say that the "paranormal" is not always benign and people should think long and hard before they go poking around forces that we dont really understand. I personally think in some cases more harm than good could be done. So good luck to anyone who is brave enough to undertake such investigations but please be carefull.

All the best Harry

 

[red_pill_junkie]

I listened tot the show twice, and it really helped me in beginning to grasp the importance of what Joshua is trying to accomplish with his new book.

The way I see it —and you'll have to excuse me if I offend a few people in their national pride— the United States is beginning to be left behind in the field of scientific training and Science education.

There are many factors for this: one is that less and less young individuals feel attracted to Science because they might feel they have better (and easier) chances to attain wealth if they focus instead on things like sports or the entertainment industry —it's easier to find the next Justin Bieber, than the next Einstein or Edison.

There's also the actual discouraging for young folks in getting their actual hands on scientific experiments, due to safety concerns; to the point that selling a chemistry set without actual chemical compounds is now considered normal —after all, we don't want little Jimmy to get burned with some hydrochloric acid now, would we?!

And there even might be a general sense that there aren't many things left to discover anyway. Or that even if they are, it would take a huge amount of equipment and resources to do it —e.g. the LHC in Geneva.

Now, getting back to Joshua and his book, it occurs to me that this could very well help spark a new scientific Renaissance in the United States. The same way people started to toy around with little electrical gadgets in the early XIXth century, or how the first giant home computer industries were born inside a suburban garage in the late XXth, maybe if enough people follow Joshua's directions and start to experiment on their own, at the very least you would inject a broader understanding of the scientific principles amid the general public.

And, at a long shot, you could end up laying the foundations for a whole new field of Science. And History tells us that when that happens, a great deal of material prosperity and quality of life can be reaped by the country that ventures there first.

So kudos to Joshua

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Something he said really bothered me. His book is probably the worst way for children to learn about science in general.

From what I heard on the show, everything he promotes sounds like pseudoscience.

As for the Brown Mountain Lights, Brian Dunning explains them quite well: The Brown Mountain Lights

Of course, I think my opinion will be unpopular.

 

[red_pill_junkie]

Something he said really bothered me. His book is probably the worst way for children to learn about science in general.

From what I heard on the show, everything he promotes sounds like pseudoscience.

As for the Brown Mountain Lights, Brian Dunning explains them quite well: The Brown Mountain Lights

Of course, I think my opinion will be unpopular.

Well, the way I see it, the paranormal has always been extremely attractive to many folks during their younger years. Some grow out of it —some of us don't and are an embarrassment to our parents

So if Joshua's book helps promote basic Science by coupling it with the so-called Paranormal, what is wrong with a few people trying to start a few experiments, and then maybe later they will be encouraged to further expand their scientific horizons with other publications and the like?

Nobody is saying people won't end up debunking a long-held paranormal assumption or belief. Maybe a reader of Joshua's book will end up dismissing paranormal claims as he finds he has explained all the mysteries he sought to investigate. Again, what's wrong with that?

Joshua's goal appears to be simply to empower people into not believing unquestionably either the explanations given by Academics, or by the popular TV shows that exploit Fortean phenomena. It calls the reader to stop being a passive receiver of information, and to start looking for the answers on his own.

PS: As for Dunning's explanation, I don't want to enter a debate on which is the best theory —and Warren seems to adhere a natural explanation to the lights— but here's what I found at his site:

Others have blamed the illuminations on atmospheric reflections and refractions of both artificial and natural sources of light. Some researchers have even wondered if starlight could be refracted in some unusual way. However, evidence for these theories has never been presented. Besides, many research teams like ORION (researchers from the Oak Ridge National Laboratory) and L.E.M.U.R. have documented anomalous energy fields when the lights appear. These include readings on standard EMF meters, IR scanners, and even Geiger counters! Optical illusions could not cause these types of objective fields.

Lights from campers and off road vehicles are commonly mistaken for paranormal illuminations. However, the ORV park was only installed in the 1980s, and the lights have been seen for at least the past century. In fact, the scientists from ORION conducted most of their research in the 1970s and early 80s, before the ORV park was constructed.

Of course, there are those who insist the lights are simply “ghosts,” or some form of spiritual materialization, as well as aliens, UFOs, or giant fireflies! Theories on all from inter-dimensional activity to fairies and glowing “little people” have been put forth. Despite the speculation, no one has ever proven what the lights are. We can only be sure of one thing: they DO exist.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

So if Joshua's book helps promote basic Science by coupling it with the so-called Paranormal, what is wrong with a few people trying to start a few experiments, and then maybe later they will be encouraged to further expand their scientific horizons with other publications and the like?

Unfortunately they'll be doing for the wrong reasons.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for investigating "strange" occurrences, but we need to approach these topics cautiously.

I prefer Ben Radford's approach, but I am biased, I know.

 

[trilithium]

What a great show, I thoroughly enjoyed it. Mr. Warren has so many great ideas, most of what he said seems more like common sense in retrospect.
Very eye opening and entertaining show, I would have loved to hear more of his stories about his personal experiences, but i have a feeling he'll be a guest on the show again ASAP, I can only hope!

 

[OceansLost]

I just checked out the haunted room video he talked about, its pretty good, I have had the same expreinces in other places..

 

[jimp]

I enjoyed the Warren show. It's a super-fun idea to build sensing equipment with household items -- I am tempted to get the book. I think these gizmos that Warren explains are first and foremost detectors of physical (non-paranormal) phenomena. This is why a kid could learn about science through building these contraptions and learning about why they work the way they do.

I'm not sure about the whole question brought up by Gene and Chris, that maybe there will be a bunch of idiots going around using these gizmos to detect paranormal activity -- I mean that's basically the status quo right now, right? No one really knows anything about this stuff, and I am skeptical of anyone who calls themselves an expert -- especially if they are selling their expertise. That reeks of hucksterism. There are certainly experienced researchers but I actually don't think it's a good idea for new researchers to get deeply mentored by them. Why? Because the new people would learn all the experts' prejudices and presuppositions about their field. None of it may be true -- this is a very immature science, if you can call it a science at all.

Plus, I have a strong dislike of Authority.

 

[trilithium]

I agree that making these gadgets may detect everything from old cell phones to the microwave interfering with the cordless, but I think Mr. Warren's logic is sound. The chances someone may record something of great importance skyrockets, even if it takes some time to go back and re-discover that importance.

 

[Randall]

I just listened to this episode and one of the most valuable points made was that of establishing an understanding of the nomenclature ( or what was referred to as "languaging" during the show ). I think it would be a very bad idea to hijack terminology used in science and other established disciplines and use it synonymously with paranormal concepts. Not only does it cause confusion, it invites ridicule. If paranormal researchers are going to use established terms, then use them in the context they were created and not as some convenience term for something they either don't understand or claim exists but have no other way to illustrate.

Of particular note in this regard are references to "quantum" this or that, and other "dimensions". Most people when they use the term "quantum" don't even know its basic origin, let alone how it's applied to quantum physics. It's just become another new age buzz word to make psi bable sound credible. And when it comes to dimensions, Sagan's "flatland" analogy is severely flawed. Using it to explain apparitions makes absolutely no sense at all. Furthermore, multiple "dimensions" beyond those we live in that are quoted as "scientific fact" are acually only parts of abstract mathematical models. There is no evidence that they have any bearing on reality, and even when we hear these scientists talk about them hypothetically, they describe very small scale short lived circumstances under very intense circumstances.

j.r.

 

[tyder001]

Art Bell at one time had a couple of people on who did some Evp's. Thing is I never gave it much credence. But, these folks didn't charge or write books and it was incredible what they were picking up. It was either an outright lie and a fraud or they made an incredible break through. I don't beleive you can record those who have died. I have given it an attempt or two or three but I stopped because I'm not sure it would be pshcologically healthy to spend alot of time doing it. Still, it is an interesting concept. I would reccommend, for an open minded skeptical look at all things pertaining to ghost hunting, the book "Ghost" by Katherine Ramsland.

Anyway, I didn't read the whole thread so if I got to far off subject I apologise in advance.

 

[Jeff Crowell]

A lot of times in ghost hunting we discuss not so much what could be causing what's being observed so much as what isn't causing what is observed. I've captured my share of EVP's, and a good friend captured a solid shadow phenomenon on video that defies reasonable explanation, so I'm convinced (believe perhaps?) that something is going on.

The hypotheses regarding cause abound: multi-dimensional causes, time fluctuations, spirit "energy" that's manifesting or affecting electronics, yadda yadda. Each hypothesis has it's flaws and weaknesses, some have their strengths. The bottom line is something is going on unless you're so skeptical as to dismiss it all as imagination or what-not. If so, fine, but you're out of the discussion. Still, I have to agree with ufology in his criticism about people tossing around quantum theory and the multi-dimensional hypothesis when it comes to paranormal activity. The people that do the tossing simply do not understand what they are talking about. They hear about entanglement and other dimensions(mistakenly defined as "worlds" by science fiction writers) and wrongfully believe this is scientific fact instead of theory that provides explanations for paranormal phenomena.

Oh well. What can we do except continue to gather data, research hypothesis, and pray we come up with a common string we can follow, some day?

 

[Randall]

... I'm convinced (believe perhaps?) that something is going on ...

... What can we do except continue to gather data, research hypothesis, and pray we come up with a common string we can follow, some day? ...

Hey there Sandanfire ... good post.

As skeptical as my first post seemed, I believe without reservation that something is definitely going on. I've mentioned in other posts that I've had too many weird experiences to start knocking the experiences of others. But what it is exactly that's going on is another story. For me, being a UFO guy, I think that most, if not all of the phenomena can be explained by a high-tech alien presence. We don't need to get into alternate universes, spirit realms or life after death.

All we need to do is combine the right technology ( anti-gravity, mind control, cloaking, sonic projectors etc. ) and you have everything you need. Human illusionists are already pretty good at making this stuff seem real. Maybe some of them like playing the odd practical joke. Or maybe the psychological warfare branch of the DOD needs some guinea pigs to practice on once in a while. If humans can pull most of this stuff off, imagine what alien technology a few hundred years in advance of us could do.

j.r.