Regressive hypnosis. Or "ringers" sent here to start trouble.
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Further discussion of Hypnosis goes here
- Thread starter Schuyler
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Regressive hypnosis. Or "ringers" sent here to start trouble.
dyingsun
Paranormal Adept
Ok, wtf is up with these people ?' Paratopia' or not, this is just childlike behaviour.
I have only listened to a small portion of one of their episodes. I just don't listen to the other shows.
Tom From Hong Kong
Sleeping with one eye open . . .
Obviously we only have part of the evidence. However, at points it does appear as if Dr. Jacobs is de facto acting as a psychiatrist, particularly in his 'diagnosis' of MPD (a major psychiatric disorder), whatever his motivation for doing so. Unlike some others, I'm not so certain he won't be the subject of state legal action and that Ms. Woods won't have a private cause of action. Not knowing the laws of Pennsylvania, I have to say that if I was the local prosecutor I would look at the case rather carefully, and the local psychiatric community may weigh in. Even if Ms. Woods or the State of Pennsylvania have weak legal cases against Dr. Jacobs, as soon as you get pulled into court you lose in many respects, regardless of the outcome, given the cost of legal representation and the impact on your reputation. Dr. Jacobs has unwittingly exposed himself (no pun intended) to those in the broader community who may not sympathize with his pursuits, and the fact that he has tried to avoid proper supervision by Temple University may not sit well with local prosecutors.
However, Ms. Woods, as a citizen of New Zealand, may not want to incur the cost of pursuing legal action here in the U.S., and the local prosecutors may find this a hindrance in any investigation. She could try to sue in New Zealand given that she, the patient, was there for most of the 'treatment', despite it being on the telephone. This distance also helps Ms. Woods under any defamation lawsuit pursued by Dr. Jacobs -- Ms. Woods presumably doesn't have any assets in the country that could be attached, and who knows what the treaties are like between the U.S. and New Zealand. In short, this raises a bunch of procedural questions surrounding legal forum as well as choice of law. The whole thing may be a wash due to the distance, despite the underlying merits.
Budd Hopkins may be the unfortunate 'innocent bystander' in this whole fiasco; the light is now shining down on him and his methods once again.
However, Ms. Woods, as a citizen of New Zealand, may not want to incur the cost of pursuing legal action here in the U.S., and the local prosecutors may find this a hindrance in any investigation. She could try to sue in New Zealand given that she, the patient, was there for most of the 'treatment', despite it being on the telephone. This distance also helps Ms. Woods under any defamation lawsuit pursued by Dr. Jacobs -- Ms. Woods presumably doesn't have any assets in the country that could be attached, and who knows what the treaties are like between the U.S. and New Zealand. In short, this raises a bunch of procedural questions surrounding legal forum as well as choice of law. The whole thing may be a wash due to the distance, despite the underlying merits.
Budd Hopkins may be the unfortunate 'innocent bystander' in this whole fiasco; the light is now shining down on him and his methods once again.
Sean Elifritz
Administrator
So what's going on with the proposed hypnosis roundtable discussion? Any updates?
Edit: Forget it. Just checked the homepage. I'm shocked you were able to get Jacobs to participate considering the current controversy. Great job! Looking forward to this one.
Edit: Forget it. Just checked the homepage.
I'm shocked you were able to get Jacobs to participate considering the current controversy. Great job! Looking forward to this one.
So what's going on with the proposed hypnosis roundtable discussion? Any updates?
Edit: Forget it. Just checked the homepage.
You have been checking the updates on upcoming episodes, right?
Sean Elifritz
Administrator
You have been checking the updates on upcoming episodes, right?
I hadn't been, ha ha. Figured that if it was scheduled it would have been mentioned in here. But right after I posted that I decided to check and there it was.
I hadn't been, ha ha. Figured that if it was scheduled it would have been mentioned in here. But right after I posted that I decided to check and there it was.
And there are a couple more in the making that we'll be announcing over the next few days.
Sean Elifritz
Administrator
Hmm, just noticed it says abduction roundtable. Is the emphasis going to be on abductions rather than hypnosis?
It'll be both. Hobkins and Jacobs favor the use of hypnotic regression in their investigations; Randle doesn't.
My two cents late in the game ...
I used self hypnosis years ago as a way to relax in the afternoons. I left the sessions open-ended so that I could fall asleep or just meditate for a while. But after several weeks, I began to have strange dreams as well as a heightened sense of intuition. The latter was great as well as other aspects of going within, but the dreams were finally too much for me. They were too vivid and just scary as hell.
I think hypnosis and meditation can have adverse effects if one chooses to view them as such. They open a window to the subconscious which could play havoc with a conscious mind not accustomed to the total weirdness the subconscious can produce in and even out of dreams.
Hypnosis is unreliable. Had I ever dreamed I'd had alien encounters during my practice with self hypnosis, I might have believed them myself. Fortunately, that didn't happen. I do wonder if most people who undergo hypnosis with researchers don't then become too mired in their own innate weirdness, their subconscious realms.
When I finally realized I was at the heart of creating all the strangeness, my fear of self hypnosis lost it's grip. It's still a great way to relax and aftereffects are just eye candy as well as interesting looks into my head. But how many people do it at all, not to mention doing it enough to learn what I did? It's just not a reliable method for studying much of anything that doesn't have to do with the subconscious.
I've enjoyed reading Jacobs books despite my criticism. Just can't take them seriously.
I used self hypnosis years ago as a way to relax in the afternoons. I left the sessions open-ended so that I could fall asleep or just meditate for a while. But after several weeks, I began to have strange dreams as well as a heightened sense of intuition. The latter was great as well as other aspects of going within, but the dreams were finally too much for me. They were too vivid and just scary as hell.
I think hypnosis and meditation can have adverse effects if one chooses to view them as such. They open a window to the subconscious which could play havoc with a conscious mind not accustomed to the total weirdness the subconscious can produce in and even out of dreams.
Hypnosis is unreliable. Had I ever dreamed I'd had alien encounters during my practice with self hypnosis, I might have believed them myself. Fortunately, that didn't happen. I do wonder if most people who undergo hypnosis with researchers don't then become too mired in their own innate weirdness, their subconscious realms.
When I finally realized I was at the heart of creating all the strangeness, my fear of self hypnosis lost it's grip. It's still a great way to relax and aftereffects are just eye candy as well as interesting looks into my head. But how many people do it at all, not to mention doing it enough to learn what I did? It's just not a reliable method for studying much of anything that doesn't have to do with the subconscious.
I've enjoyed reading Jacobs books despite my criticism. Just can't take them seriously.
paraschtick
Paragilmorian guy
Just a quickie ... how do you do self hypnosis anyway??? I've tried meditating or making my self relax in the past ... and I always fall asleep
. Maybe I'm just too highly evolved for it or something. Any urls or links you can direct me to that will enlighten me further???Oh and I read "The Threat" last year, and found it rather scarey, doom-laden, and rather far fetched. And now I think I may know why ... cos its all FICTION
.paraschtick ... ouuut.
dyingsun
Paranormal Adept
Yep, I think he went the same time Dave did.
It must have been contagious.
Paraschtick, sorry I never got back to you until now. I just pop in when I think I have some time now. Busier, that's all.
Can't remember where I read the suggestions on how to attempt self-hypnosis, but it's pretty easy if you're in a mood to relax anyway. I just lay down and took three really deeps breaths and let my mind wander with my eyes closed for a while. When I felt even more relaxed, I told my self (silently) that my toes were feeling warm and very relaxed. When I actually felt some warming, I then moved through my feet with the same suggestion. (Never felt warm in the shins, but I kept up the suggestions while I worked my way up to my head. I think the time it takes to work up the body helps too. One can also suggest to himself that his limbs are very heavy and that he's so relaxed he's feeling very drowsy. No big difference in what a hypnotist might tell his subject to get him to a dreamy alpha state.
From there I give myself permission to let thoughts drift through my head without attaching importance to them. I allow that they will drift away until I eventually feel a great sense of quiet. But it's important at the outset to allow for anything that happens, like it's being okay to scratch the first or second itch before telling myself that I really don't itch. (When the itching feeling goes away.)
The really quiet place is probably nothing other than a meditative state, deeper than alpha, but I'm no expert. It just works.
I give myself permission to stay in that quiet place beforehand or to maybe fall asleep. Except I tend to gag when laying on my back sleeping so it's rare that I do sleep then. I've also given myself permission to "wake up" or get up when the time in the quiet place feels sufficient. At the longest, I've spent only 45 minutes in a session.
But in one session years ago I did fall asleep to dream a girlfriend was crying, telling me her father had died. I immediately woke up and called her only to find he'd died the previous night. That's what I meant about increased intuition. It's only one example of what began to take place on an intuitive level back then.
Hope that helps and I'm sorry I didn't check back. I never remember where I posted anything anyway!
Can't remember where I read the suggestions on how to attempt self-hypnosis, but it's pretty easy if you're in a mood to relax anyway. I just lay down and took three really deeps breaths and let my mind wander with my eyes closed for a while. When I felt even more relaxed, I told my self (silently) that my toes were feeling warm and very relaxed. When I actually felt some warming, I then moved through my feet with the same suggestion. (Never felt warm in the shins, but I kept up the suggestions while I worked my way up to my head. I think the time it takes to work up the body helps too. One can also suggest to himself that his limbs are very heavy and that he's so relaxed he's feeling very drowsy. No big difference in what a hypnotist might tell his subject to get him to a dreamy alpha state.
From there I give myself permission to let thoughts drift through my head without attaching importance to them. I allow that they will drift away until I eventually feel a great sense of quiet. But it's important at the outset to allow for anything that happens, like it's being okay to scratch the first or second itch before telling myself that I really don't itch. (When the itching feeling goes away.)
The really quiet place is probably nothing other than a meditative state, deeper than alpha, but I'm no expert. It just works.
I give myself permission to stay in that quiet place beforehand or to maybe fall asleep. Except I tend to gag when laying on my back sleeping so it's rare that I do sleep then. I've also given myself permission to "wake up" or get up when the time in the quiet place feels sufficient. At the longest, I've spent only 45 minutes in a session.
But in one session years ago I did fall asleep to dream a girlfriend was crying, telling me her father had died. I immediately woke up and called her only to find he'd died the previous night. That's what I meant about increased intuition. It's only one example of what began to take place on an intuitive level back then.
Hope that helps and I'm sorry I didn't check back. I never remember where I posted anything anyway!
paraschtick
Paragilmorian guy
Blimey. I saw that this post had been posted in this thread at the top of the forum web page when I logged in just now, and thought I would have a look. And the post was for me!! How exciting
.Well it sounds like really deep relaxation. The only problem I have with relaxation though is that I tend to fall asleep when I'm trying to relax. Which is good in a way because I need a hell of a lot of sleep but since I fall asleep I don't really gain anything from the relaxation phase. But nevertheless I shall have to try it ... when my cats are asleep so that they don't annoy me when I'm relaxing!
Anyway thanks for (finally ... :
) getting back to me and the thread. I thought this thread had died ages ago. And now I have posted in it again ... it probably will since I am the king of the thread killers .Again thanks alot for that.
Best wishes
paraschtick
ps I forget where I post too. And I'm forever coming across old posts that I don't remember writing. Very strange this memory business ...
---------- Post added at 03:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:29 PM ----------
Oh and I nearly forgot. I finally finished reading The Threat again ... after starting it last year and not getting through to the end because it was so far-fetched and depressing.
So this time I finally managed to get all the way to the end ... even though it took me a few months. And so what did I learn from it this time.
(1) That its extremely far-fetched and depressing.
(2) Dr Jacobs considers that he is pretty much the only decent hypnotherapist investigating the alien abduction hypothesis in the field. He has few good words for John Mack (considers him to be new agey and too naive and "positive"), and mentions Budd Hopkins very few times when talking about other researchers.
(3) He considers that we can do nothing about what the aliens are up to ... and we're basically doomed. The end being that hybrids will take over the world ... with abductees being their slaves, and non-abductees being gotten rid of in some fashion.
(4) He hardly ever mentions male abductees. I should work out the statistics but most (and I mean heading towards 99%) of the abductees he talks about are female (hmmm ...).
(5) Most abductees experience hybrids who never harm them but there are deeply psychotic ones who are incredibly nasty to their allotted abductees. They rape and humiliate them in various ways towards the end of the book ... sometimes infront of the abductees children (!)
(6) There is quite a lot of sexual material. And again some mention of the abductees being basically raped during adolescence (the words "child" or "children" are seldom used!).
(7) The whole hybrid reproduction/breeding scenario is all fairly low-tech in my opinion. There's no talk of gene manipulation, splicing or whatever. Just lots and lots of aliens and hybrids having their way with abductees ... in various ways ... and seeing what comes of it.
(8) David Jacobs loathes the New Agers, and calls them "The Positives". He believes that they are naive and live in a dream world. He puts John Mack in this category.
(9) He has absolutely no evidence for alien abduction up to this point (we now know he apparently has videos etc of alien hybrids ... apparently) apart from what he has gleaned from his hypnosis sessions ... hmmm.
So there we have some exciting thoughts from the deep recesses of my brain on The Threat. If I can think of anything else I shall add to this list. But for now that seems to be about it. Its in short a fairly easy read, very clinical and in the end a fairly horrible book. But sometimes you have to put up with the nonsense to get a clear idea of someone and what they are putting out there. And in this instance, this person is putting out some very horrible stuff indeed.
Ron Collins
Curiously Confused
Sounds like a new personal tagline!
Wow, that is the best sum up of his material possible! Point 4 had occurred to me in a few times. Perhaps point 7 is relevant because it seems consistent with the current science knowledge of the "researcher"?
With me anyway Jacobs has lost whatever tenuous thread of quasi-respect I had for him. Especially after the Woods thing. Weird and often violent sexual content does seem to be a recurring theme in his studies. I don't know perhaps someone should be looking a little closer at the good doctor and his practices??? Perhaps someone with a badge? Just a thought.
paraschtick
Paragilmorian guy
Sounds like a new personal tagline!
Wow, that is the best sum up of his material possible! Point 4 had occurred to me in a few times. Perhaps point 7 is relevant because it seems consistent with the current science knowledge of the "researcher"?
Thanks for that Ron. I only put it together on the spur of the moment, and didn't really think how I put it down that much. It literally is just a series of points that came to me as I read it (not that I really took any notes of any import ... maybe someone more literate and with a psychology background of some sort could read it and come up with a lot more which I have probably missed).
But the "mostly only male" abductee thing was quite obvious. There were a few mentions of males throughout the book but it really did seem that he truly only was interested in the female abductees ... and concentrated mainly on them.
As for the low tech approach to the breeding program, I would think that it is an incredibly slow way of doing things, and a civilisation like the one Jacobs talks about would have a more sophisticated way of doing things. I mean we are starting to do some astonishing things with biology and genetics. Just look at that artificial life that was created recently. I mean ... sodding artificial life for gawds sake
.So as you say, I think that writing this book he used the technology he saw around him ... et voila ... fairly unsophisticated genetic procedures ... and a very long term breeding program. I'm, sure aliens could probably do things a wee bit quicker.
[As for the thread killing. I have noticed that a number of threads I have contributed to have died with a post by me being the last one ... or is that just paranoia??? So I proclaim myself king of the thread killers ... and long may I reign. Bugger ... killed the thread again ... 8)]
Hotkafka
Sanity is a default
Just as an aside here: I am a psychotherapist with an inexplicable interest in the machinations of the human psyche, and well, have entertained Dr. Jacobs material from time to time. What's ironic here is I contacted him on his protocols for hypnosis, and he responded by detailing his efforts to produce a manual of approximately 300 pages that would finally once and for all establish a modus operandi for the would be abduction researcher. This is very curious to me indeed, seeing that he openly admits to having no formal training in hypnosis methodology and further, refuses to seek guidance from certified professionals who could provide necessary insight into this project. Runaway hubris, or plain stupidity?